One of the biggest problems we hear about the American comics industry is that it’s too hard for new readers: 60-90 years of continuity make it hard to jump in, unavailability of product makes it hard to find, and gatekeeping makes it hard to stay.
But the last named is a unforced error. Now why would anyone want to prevent someone from getting into reading comics, you might ask? That seems counter intuitive especially when there is a sizable segment of comics fandom that is constantly moaning that the industry is dying and publishers are to blame.
Well, what if the killer is calling from inside the house?
Yesterday morning I came across a post on Reddit entitled Not Sure if I Want to get Into Comics Anymore After First Comic Shop Experience.
You can read the whole post below, but basically a 20 year old woman MCU fan (let’s call her “Jean”) who was getting into reading comics went to her local comics shop for the first time and was bullied by a fellow customer with questions trying to prove she didn’t know anything about comics. And now she ‘s nervous about going back to any comics shops.
This is everything bad in one story: comics media gets someone interested in starting to read comics, but gatekeeping leaves her so shaken she doesn’t want to go back to that store…or any store.
The worst part about it is that this kind of gatekeeping comes from people who probably watch youtube videos about how “comics are dying,” w*ke Marvel drove away customers, blah blah blah.
BUDDY, YOU ARE THE PROBLEM!
Let a new reader get comfortable, spend money and become a regular customer! Don’t be an asshole. At this point toxic fandom (in ALL kinds of genres) is a cliche but it’s so disheartening to know it’s actually driving people AWAY from something they might enjoy. This is not how to grow comics!
Here’s the story as posted by “Jean” on r/comicbooks:
I (20F) have always liked Marvel media and am interested in starting to read comics, but an experience I had recently has left a sour taste in my mouth.
I went to a local comic and collectible store. I didn’t have a specific run or anything like that in mind so I really was just flipping through what they had to see if anything caught my eye. While I was browsing a guy approached me. I don’t know anyone who reads comics personally and don’t have many friends who are interested in superhero media in general, so I’m always up for a friendly discussion with someone with similar interests.
The first thing he said to me was “who’s your favorite hero?” I told him that my favorite is Captain America and asked him his, but instead of answering me he just said “I bet you don’t even know his real name.” I laughed awkwardly, told him that of course I know it’s Steve Rogers (Like seriously??? Why was he asking me this???), and tried to pivot back to asking him which heros/series he was interested in. He continued to ignore my questions, and just kept talking about things that he “bet I didn’t know.”
It became clear that this was not going to be a friendly conversation. It seemed like he just wanted to belittle me or make me feel like a poser. I felt so angry in that moment but also a little sad and embarrassed, I had never experienced anything like this before. After he finished what was basically a monologue about the world’s most basic Marvel lore, I left the store with my tail between my legs.
I want to be able to shop for comics in person and meet people who share my interests, but I have yet to go into a comic shop again because remembering that moment makes me feel like I’m not welcome in a space like that (whether it’s because I’m a girl, new to comics, or whatever).
Has anyone else experienced something like this while first trying to join the comic community? Is it common for longtime fans to act this way towards people just starting out? Any advice on meeting comic fans who are not like that guy?
As of this writing the post has more than 600 replies, most encouraging the Redditor to keep reading comics, giving suggestion for reading, and, sadly, confirming the existence of toxic assholes in fandom who don’t seem to want new people (ESPECIALLY WOMEN) to enjoy their hobby.
I posted this link on the Beat slack and several staffer chimed in with similar run-ins with sexist jerks. Unfortunately, probably every female-presenting comics fan reading this has had a similar experience – it’s actually one of the foundational horror stories of why comics have had a hard time becoming a mass medium in America.
I haven’t had the “gatekeeping quiz” experience, but I have been treated like an alien from outer space who hadn’t showered in a month at a few comics stores in my day – mostly a long time ago. I do occasionally run into men who give me some kind of condescending “fake fan” treatment. I just shut that shit down. I don’t have time for it.
Obviously there is a base element of confusion (at best) or hostility (at worst) towards female readers in all these anecdotes. But why? Why don’t they want MORE people reading comics? I mean I know why but…it’s such a waste of time and energy.
A few stories from Beat staffers (i’m leaving the names out because they don’t need any more harassment.)
I was once flipping through a Squirrel Girl trade at Newbury and a guy who walked up to the comics section spotted me, looked at the book, snorted, and said, “squirrel girl? Fake fan”
And that’s honestly the least offensive thing a man has said to me in a comics shop
Actually, I have an anecdote about my current LCBS. I live in a small town in TN maybe an hour outside of Nashville. The only “book store” we have is one books-a-million and a handful of thrift book stores. So I went to a local CBS looking to set up a pull list. As I usually do, I had one of my anime Tshirts on. Upon stepping into the store, the man at the front looked at me, and promptly said, “we don’t sell man-gah here”.
Peeved I looked at him and said “well I WAS going to set up my Image pull list but I’ll go somewhere else”. Bro assumed bc of my shirt, and maybe my fem appearance that I couldn’t be there for comics. He was an older man with grey hair and a mustache/beard.
So I looked online for other stores. Found a shop run BY women, and now that’s MY shop. They also support local writers and are SO excited about my [upcoming] manga kickstarter. I’ve had multiple horrible experiences in finding shops, had my love and knowledge questioned so many times. And that was 3 years ago.
This behavior is alive and well in smaller towns, especially places where there aren’t many options or the hobby is still very niche.
I’m sure any comic shop owners reading this are giving a heavy sigh. Unfortunately, female-presenting readers all have similar horror stories, and the bad shops that tolerate this kind of behavior taint the entire category.
Oh wow. Crazy thar stuff like this still happens. More people reading comics is always a good thing!
My LCS is Comics & Collectibles in Memphis, TN. I started bringing my daughter there when I had to carry her in her car seat. Now she’s almost 18 and goes on her own (and brings her friends!). If she’s had a bad experience, I haven’t heard about it; and believe me, I would have!
If Jean would like some much older Marvel stuff, especially Captain America or Avengers, I’d be glad to send along some Essential black-and-white paperbacks. She can catch up with Cap from Avengers #4 through the ’70s Kirby issues, and/or Avengers from about the same range. Always glad to share comics with new folks!
I’d be willing to send her some pdf’s of my Die Bold Comics. Let me know how I can do it.
Speciality shops of any kind are pretty inimidating for a newbie. The retailer or staff really have an obligation to be friendly, welcoming and helpful to ANYONE who has the courage to come through the door, and look out for ignorant bullies getting in the way of a pleasant visit for that new person. It’s not just female customers that have poor experiences.
Try the Hoopla app, it features new Image and a few other publishers every week. It’s completely free (and anonymous), all you need is a library card from your local library.
Obviously, in real life it must be unbearably tiresome and somewhat revolting to have to deal with, but the idea of some dude condescendingly trying to gatekeep HEIDI MACDONALD is hilarious in the abstract.
I’m not sure a Reddit post is credible information, at least to base an article on other than having a bone to pick. If the Reddit post is accurate, then there is an assumption it is gender-based. It’s my assumption as well, but the posting is not definitive enough to where you or I can simply state the interaction was a result of gender harassment. This type of exchange could easily happen in a different environment of a different topic and to blame comic culture and males seems like a hasty reaction for clickbait.
The male’s exchange was unnecessary and inappropriate. However, you are running on no facts. I’ve been in enough comic shops through the decades to know all kinds of socially challenged individuals frequent the racks. What if the fellow had Tourette’s or suffered from autism? Entirely possible.
“. . . the bad shops that tolerate this kind of behavior taint the entire category.”
There is no mention that the shop employees were made aware of the exchange. Why call it a bad shop? Any unsavory individual can walk into any retail store anywhere.
I’m sure this behavior does occur often. I have never witnessed it in a comic shop. I would be willing to step in and stop the exchange. While the article refers to gatekeeping, it really comes off as male-hating. Sad.
I sell comics on eBay and about 20% of my customers are female. I always feel a little joy when I get an order from a woman and want to reach out and encourage them but feel that might come off as creepy.
@Tom Bondurant, I grew up in Memphis, Comics and Collectibles is a fantastic place. I still stop in when I happen to be traveling through town. The best part is, it hasn’t changed in decades. Really glad that your kid and her friends are going there.
Rural Louisiana covers a lot of ground, but if Jean is reasonably close to Baton Rouge, Southeast Cards and Comics (secardsandcomics.com) is a great place in Baton Rouge. Owned by a fantastic guy, and ran by a wonderful lady (along with some other really friendly people). Some of the nicest, most welcoming people you will meet. They have a large collection of back issues that are extremely affordable and give discounts for people who have pull lists set up with them.
There is another shop in Baton Rouge called “Louisiana Double Play.” I don’t know the folks there too well, but there is usually a diverse group of people shopping when I visit and the folks behind the counter seem pretty friendly. A few young ladies work there on weekends as well.
Heidi, I also have a ton of comics that Jean can have. Lots of Marvel, DC and Image. Was getting ready to list them on eBay, but I’d rather give them to someone who I know would enjoy them. I would be happy to send them to her, or drop them off at Southeast Cards and Comics (the place that I mentioned in my previous post, that is located in Baton Rouge, LA) for her to pickup whenever she has time.
Derek O – I guess I’m going to lay down the MacDonald’s Challenge. I challenge Straight White Male comics readers to recount stories similar to what “Jean” or my staff or I have encountered: being quizzed about their comics knowledge as a welcome wagon.
1…2…3…go!
What a choad that guy was. That’s just infuriating. That crowd has inflicted so much damage to comics.
I’d be happy to send “Jean” a couple books. Non-superdude stuff, of course. The things Mr. Choad would no doubt detest.
This is sad and infuriating. Keep reading, Jean.
I’ve been out of comics for over a decade & at a minimum, found it an uncomfortable industry to exist in as a woman with something to say. Depressing to see this kinda nonsense still happening. Surprising..? No. Jean, on the off chance you are reading this, comic books are awesome, & fun, & most folks I know who have shops actively support new readers, including women. Although you ran into some gatekeeping, comics tell stories in a way no other medium does. Stick w/ it..! Also, manga are comics, that dude bro who said otherwise is an ignoramus.
Heidi, plz. message me an address where I can send some stuff for Jean. Comics (the industry) may have broken my heart, but comics (comic books, stories & art) are awesome & they are for everyone!!
The first convention I attended as publicity manager for DC, back in the 90s, a guy asked me about a character who had appeared in the third issue of the original Flash comics. When I said I wasn’t familiar with him, the guy berated me for a good five minutes about the injustice that was DC giving me a job when I was so ignorant.
Living in New York has generally been better, especially in the last few decades, but I don’t doubt the Reddit story for one second.
A subset of fans would rather burn the whole thing down than have a fan with different tastes join in for fear that enough of them would cause the companies to change to cater to them. Budgets are a zero sum game, so they do everything they can to keep the status quo because they already feel many things have changed too much for their liking.
Comic shop guy, record store guy, video game guy. Are there any worse things? Dudes who try to peacock thinking they’re impressing someone but in reality they’re being small minded CHUDS. This guy could have been welcoming and helped her (hey and he could have told his friends he finally spoke to someone without a Y chromosome) and instead had to be the worst of us.
Heidi M., it’s unfortunate that it does happen to you and your friends / co-workers. You would think out of all hobbies, that comic shops would be one of the most welcoming ones. However, why does it have to be Straight White Males? I assume that is what you are referring to myself because anyone with a name like “Derek” has to be a Straight White Male. It’s not possible it can be a Straight Black Male or an Straight Asian Male? Does it need to be Straight?
You are ignoring that comic fandom is one of the most socially challenged environments with more introverts than extraverts. It’s quite possible the Reddit exchange was someone attempting a social exchange who is just terrible at it. There are not enough facts and that is usually Reddit in general, unfactual. Not to discredit the actual experience Jean had, but there are not enough facts in the post for you or I to say one way or the other.
Honestly, it’s not the first time you have published content like this. I’m sure you have miserable experiences, but it seems a little self-reflection should be considered in advance as it does read as hatred to me. Cheers.
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