Laura Hudson spots a real howler from the NYCC panel descriptions:
Friday
7:00 PM-8:00 PM
1E15
Girls Who Kick Ass
How do the ladies creating comics do it? They’re constantly blowing us
away with the most outrageous and provocative titles. Jenna Jameson
(Shadow Hunter), Colleen Doran (Distant Soil, Reign of the Zodiac),
Amanda Connor (Birds of Prey, Painkiller Jane, Lois Lane ), Louise
Simonson (New Mutants, X-Factor, Superman) and special guests reveal
why they know what Fan-Boys want.
It’s nice to know that after a lifetime of fighting to be taken seriously, you can still be lumped in with a former porn star who once read a comic book as an equal.
Seriously, this is why “women’s panels” suck are a dated, useless idea whose time has come…and gone. I would love to hear Colleen Doran’s thoughts on art history and freelancing…Amanda Connor’s ideas on design and the current state of superheroes…Louise Simonson’s unsurpassed viewpoint on storytelling and creating lasting characters…and sure, what the hell, even Jenna Jameson’s ideas on why celebrities are flocking to comics to get their next optionable property. But when all these people are grouped together solely on the basis of gender it’s dumb, patronizing and, frankly, sexist. Will we soon be seeing a “Men in Comics” panel featuring Gary Groth, Jose Luis Garcia Lopez, DJ Coffman, Bill Black and Nicolas Cage?
Of course, no “Men in Comics” panel would be complete with Dave Sim sharing his views about women in comics.
Now that’s really getting into comics through the backdoor.
It sounds more like Jenna Jameson is being lumped with comic book writers, not women with Jenna Jameson.
I think as long as there’s something distinctive about the experience of being in comics for women, or African-Americans, or Christians, or young cartoonists, or old cartoonists then a panel with that as the focus can be interesting and doesn’t preclude any of the other panels on which those cartoonists and comics creators can and should be prominently featured.
The title of that panel seems stupid, and Jenna Jameson sharing table space with the other creators seems really stupid, but more all for itself rather than as an indictment of a kind of panel. At least to me.
And I would so go see a panel with Nic Cage and Gary Groth.
Doesn’t every convention have like 50 “men in comics” panels already? Hah.
when I saw “Jenna Jameson” on that list, i had a sharp pain in the front of my brain. Sigh.
Wow. That sounds even more ridiculous than a “Super(Natural) Women” panel which included “psychic” (i.e., cold reading exploiter of the bereaved) Allison DuBois.
On the other hand, at least Jenna Jameson’s “talents” are real. :-P
Chris reminds us that it’s National Set-Up Line Day.
>Will we soon be seeing a “Men in Comics” panel featuring Gary Groth, Jose Luis Garcia Lopez, DJ Coffman, Bill Black and Nicolas Cage?
I would so go to that panel! Somebody please put this together!
It would be interesting to hear Ms. Jameson’s thoughts on storytelling dynamics and comic art history. I’d love to hear her discuss the finer points of Winsor McKay and Milton Caniff, and compare and contrast them to the works of Pat Myne and Seymore Butts.
I may just show up to this.
I hope someone does give her a pop quiz. I wonder if she even knows who Will Eisner is?
I think it’s wonderfully humourous that right next to this story on the front page is ad for the Roswell TX book, featuring a bikini-clad chick riding a motorcycle.
Uh, Jenna Jameson is the headliner on that set. Fail.
But the sad truth is that more men will come to the panel because of that than the other creators. Double fail.
Even hobbits hate this panel.
Jenna Jameson and Colleen Doran? Together? Are you sure? I remember Colleen Doran going to great pains to explain to me what it was like for her as one of the only women in comics at one time and how it made it so hard to be respected as an artist.
Maybe Jenna Jameson does have some important things to say, but the way this panel is being marketed and presented to the public is really upsetting.
How DO women do it?
The same way anyone else would.
Why would any comic book professional — male or female — participate in a panel with Jenna Jameson?
Tom said everything I wanted to say, better than I could have, and including about the hobbits.
Anyone know if Reed programs similarly for their trade shows serving energy, interior design, safety, jewellery and food service?
I mean, Jenna lives somewhere, probably hangs pictures, likes nice shiny things and eats sometimes. I see loads of crossover potential here.
All I know is I will be at the “Women in Comics” panel instead! Gail Simone, Heidi, Becky Cloonan — 5 Pm on Friday! I’ll be sure to stop and buy from Colleen Doran because she is a woman who kicks ass. But don’t want to see someone who shows her actually ass.
All I know is I will be at the “Women in Comics” panel instead! Gail Simone, Heidi, Becky Cloonan — 5 Pm on Friday! I’ll be sure to stop and buy from Colleen Doran because she is a woman who kicks ass. But don’t want to see someone who shows her actual ass.
The panel description makes me weep in embarrassment for my gender.
I’m sure Jenna Jameson DOES have plenty of interesting things to say; she’s a pretty damn good business woman, regardless of how tasteful or distasteful her primary field is. She probably makes more money than everyone who’s posted on this thead combined.
But beyond “I’m a dillettante who pays other people to make comics for me,” I can’t see what she could possibly have to say comics.
This could be the best panel of the show though, in a train wreck sort of way. The other three panelists are great creators, and man do I want to see them rake her over the coals.
“Dilettante”
“I can’t see what she could possibly have to say ABOUT comics.”
“Why would any comic book professional — male or female — participate in a panel with Jenna Jameson?”
Morbid curiosity?
Will nothing short of her rolling up a copy of The Spirit and pleasuring herself with it please you people?
I like where the line breaks fall in that panel description.
Jenna on that list is annoying, but she should have some sort of say in the adult comics field, perhaps. As more than a few pornstars have gotten into comics, as well as up and comers (no pun intended).
There is a Rog’s reviews, a website where he interviews pornstars and one of the more recent ones interviewed also said that she would probably be coming out with her own comic as well. Set by Jenna’s presence with her comic.
looking forward to heidi asking questions from the audience.
“I’ll be sure to stop and buy from Colleen Doran because she is a woman who kicks ass.”
She is pretty cool, isn’t she?
My immediate reaction, I’ll admit, was laughter.
My secondary reaction was, “If I were Doran, Simonson, or Connor, I’d just not show up.”
Uhm, excuse me, people – but does anyone remember CARNAL COMICS? Comic books that just happened to be co-written by the porn stars themselves?
They’ve been amongst us for a very long time. It was through those books that I met my Deposit Man collaborator, Larry Nadolsky through a mutual friendship with publisher and writer, Jay Allen Sanford.
However, if Marvel ever asks Ron Jeremy to write a POWER PACK mini-series – I’m packing all my goodies and going home.
~
Coat
If you do a ‘Men in Comics’ panel, a keg of beer is required.
Man Law?
Man Law!
It’s two-fold, isn’t it? Being lumped in with someone who is successful for doing something stupid for a living,…when you have worked your ass off to be taken seriously for doing something that requires brains and talent and then,…being presented in the equivalent of a minstrel line to boot. It all seems so depressingly 20th Century. One day we’ll ditch all this category crap and start dealing with each other as individuals.
Now,…where’s my jet-pack,…and where’s my tambourine?
It’s two-fold, isn’t it? Being lumped in with someone who is successful for doing something stupid for a living,…when you have worked your ass off to be taken seriously for doing something that requires brains and talent and then,…being presented in the equivalent of a minstrel line to boot. It all seems so depressingly 20th Century. One day we’ll ditch all this category crap and start dealing with each other as individuals.
Now,…where’s my jet-pack,…and where’s my tambourine?
Well,…I did say it was two-fold.
I don’t see why Jenna’s the target for some, she didn’t create the panel.
Jenna Jameson does have a comic book. A new issue came out this Wednesday.
OXYMORON ALERT !!!
“…a “Men in Comics” panel featuring Gary Groth…”
Shooting old computers in the woods doesn’t make you a man.
I don’t know why comic book fans are bashing Jenna Jameson. She has done so much more in bringing smiles to every fanboy’s face than Bendis, Frank Miller, and Stan Lee combined. Could you imagine your lives without her? We’d be left reading Lady Death and Wonder Woman on saturday nights.
Interview with the creators of “Jenna Jameson: Shadow Hunter” – comiXology:
Hey, guess who’s moderating that panel? :)
“But when all these people are grouped together solely on the basis of gender it’s dumb, patronizing and, frankly, sexist. ”
I think you’re just seeing what you want to see. Aside from the simple fact that Jenna Jameson should never be grouped with those other three talented women (unless she can prove she’s as good at creating comics as they are), I see nothing dumb about it. There isn’t anything inherently patronizing or sexist about offering a panel focused on something gender specific and populated by individuals of that specific gender.
Sexist and patronizing would be allowing women to ONLY sit on panels with other women.
Besides, wouldn’t women–and these female comic book professionals in particular–want to be able to talk about their craft without having to deal with the usual moronic male bullshit which is so prevalent at comic book conventions?
I remember, when I joined Friends of Lulu at SPX `95, that the lone comicbook artist from Carnal Comics, who also doubled as a booth babe (even though it was her booth), was not warmly received.
Would the panel be less offensive if Jamie King appeared instead of Ms. Jameson? Are there other female celebrities writing comics, who aren’t known for their appearance (such as Pamela Anderson)?
If moderated tightly, the Drooling Fanboys in the audience will be kept under control, and perhaps the packed room will be enlightened by the other creators.
I think that such panels are worthwhile. Young women trying to be successul in comics crave much information and inspiration. It’s a fine line… I’ll definitely be there, because the panelists are so good! (And immediately afterwards, I’ll fire up the cellphone and search the blogs for comments!)
I see that both the NYCC writer and Hudson misspelled Amanda Conner’s last name. A Google search indicated that the misspelling happens a lot.
SRS
Yes and I picked it up myself. Shame.
“Uh, Jenna Jameson is the headliner on that set. Fail.
“But the sad truth is that more men will come to the panel because of that than the other creators. Double fail.”
Men are evil, aren’t they?!
The sad truth is, we don’t know that. We’ll know which panels are better attended when the convention is over.
“Tom said everything I wanted to say, better than I could have, and including about the hobbits.”
Hobbits? I don’t understand the reference.
Ooops … I had better amend that. I’ve never read “The Hobbit”, but know of its existence. Had to clear that up before someone took me to task for living in a cave, being stupid, or something else.
Now then … what does the “hobbit” reference have to do with a comics panel?
Hobbits are famously pro-porn, according to an appendix in a book called The Unfinished Tales of JRR Tolkien. They even compiled a number of their more famous dirty stories into something called The Red Book.
For a hobbit to hate this panel, it must be a bad panel indeed.
I don’t know that it’s the fact that this is a women’s panel, so much as the way that it’s been packaged and advertised. It’s back handed feminism.
“Are there other female celebrities writing comics, who aren’t known for their appearance (such as Pamela Anderson)?”
The first one that comes immediately to mind is Rosario Dawson & her Image Comics series Occult Crimes Taskforce…
Also, for those making the connections with Jenna Jameson and comics, in addition to her current Virgin comics project, her autobiography from a few years back “How To Make Love Like A Porn Star” included some comics work from Bernard Chang (who later did the infamous, odious, and not-associated-with-Jenna-Jameson graphic novel “How to Make Money Like A Porn Star” written by Neil Strauss, who was the co-author of the Jameson autobiography…)
My problem has a lot more to do with the language & tone of the blurb. More patronizing garbage.
Jenna Jameson, that’s pretty funny. Soon they’ll be shipping in Rocco Sifreddi about his gripping new title Dick Fury Agent of M.I.L.F. (multi international law force)
I would ask, how come none of the other people did not just decline to appear on this panel? Jenna Jameson I am sure could be interesting on panels about a wide range of topics, but this one seems a bit of a farce.
Oh and as an FYI, Jenna’s films don’t sell anywhere like they used to.
I’m not going to make an argument in favor of Jameson as a genuine comics artist (she’s a joke) or that this panel description isn’t offensive (it is) but the planners of the con would have a pretty big incentive to use Jameson. Of the four, she’s the only one guaranteed to have name recognition to absolutely EVERYONE at that con, and most people, period. I think we can all agree it’s in cons’ best interest to have genuine mass market celebrities on their panels, whatever their qualifications. And honestly, this is the only context you could possibly use her in. What other panel could you put her on? Sexuality in comics I guess.
Anyway, as far as I’m concerned, the other four are window dressing. I could listen to Louise Simonson talk for hours.
“Of the four, she’s the only one guaranteed to have name recognition to absolutely EVERYONE at that con, and most people, period.”
Yeah, but … this is the New York COMIC Con … not the NY Porn Con … I think …
For the all the usual “drooling fanboy” comments, I’ve never been crazy about seeing models or “actresses” at comic shows. I figured most people in attendance don’t pay much attention to them. Does the appearance of a former playboy model or a xxx woman really enhance the attendance? Seems like they’re always eye-candy footnotes on the guest list, someone people may pause and speak to on their way to get a sketch from an artist.
“I would ask, how come none of the other people did not just decline to appear on this panel? ”
It is not implausible that the other panelists weren’t informed of Jameson’s participation (or that of any of the others.)
Panelists may have been approached with “Hey, will you be on a panel about Women in Comics?” rather than “Hey, will you be on a panel about Women in Comics with X, Y, and Z other panelists?”
wow, that hobbit reference is the geekiest thing I have ever heard! O.o
That’s because Tom got it wrong. The Red Book of Westsmut is where the Hobbits wrote down all of their praise for porn, but it was of course the Thrustarillion where they put their most dirty stories.
wait! now I think you’re having fun with my non-knowledge of all things Tolkien. ;)
Thrustarillion! lol! :D
Wow. That’s awful. To group, to put it nicely, an actress along with long running actual creators of comics is an insult. Then we have that awful panel description. it sounds like the morons at Wizard wrote it. Holy innuendo, Batman. Surprised the little punks did’t put a pause after “blowing us”. Plus I don’t think it’s Jameson’s “titles” are what she’s known for. Unless that was a type. Geez.
Also nice that it seems that these female authors are only writing for fanboys. Guess they’re not aiming for other fangirls. Or you know, fanboys who prefer other fanboys. Wow. This panel set ups is total fail.
I think it’d be interesting, as an experiment, to have a panel at a big convention called something like just “Juggernauts Of Comics” or somesuch, and have the panelists just by coincidence all happen to be a bunch of prominent female creators. Then wait and see how long it takes for someone to inevitably complain that it’s a line-up doesn’t contain any men, so it can be pointed out “gee, you don’t seem to notice when its the other way around…”
Panels about writing good female characters, marketing female characters, and whether or not we need more of them
=
good.
Panels about being a woman in a male dominated industry
=
possibly good. Depends on how male dominated the industry really is and if the topic is more specifically advice for female creators (good) or because the conference people figure if they give the ladies a place to vent, they won’t bring the topic up elsewhere (bad, duh).
Panels that confuse these two topics and/or assume that only women have something to say about the former (and possibly implying that women don’t have anything to add to other topics)
=
bad, very bad.
Panels that completely miss the point and think that women don’t read comics, that they only sometimes make them
=
so bad someone needs to be sentenced to several decades of only being allowed to read such gems as Marmeduke and Family Circus.
I agree with Mickle.
Sadly, it is unfortunate that even in the comments section, old fashioned sexism is still alive and well.
If Ron Jeremy suddenly got into comics and wanted to talk about comics in a panel, even if he were alongside Frank Miller or Joe Quesada, I’m sure guys would be more accepting.
“If Ron Jeremy suddenly got into comics and wanted to talk about comics in a panel, even if he were alongside Frank Miller or Joe Quesada, I’m sure guys would be more accepting. ”
I wouldn’t be so sure. Guys in general are able to enjoy things for the train wrecks they can become. However if you put Frank Miller, Alan Moore, Stan Lee and Ron bloody Jeremy on a panel together, do you really think all of Dork-dom wouldn’t blow up the internet in an outrage?
We all know how they get when FICTIONAL CHARACTERS are messed with. What would happen when someone messes with their legendary creators by putting them on a panel with a novice writer with a porn film background?
Seriously, the “Girls Who Kick Ass” panel is silly enough on its own merits. I don’t see why it had to become a gender studies issue.
“We all know how they get when FICTIONAL CHARACTERS are messed with. What would happen when someone messes with their legendary creators by putting them on a panel with a novice writer with a porn film background?”
hmmm … nothing?
What irks me about this is that the panel will probably get a large crowd thanks to Jameson’s presence rather than the merits of the creators on hand. The potential porno fanboy contingent is frightening, and I dread the overflow of pent-up testerone at what could be an otherwise interesting panel for all the reasons cited by Heidi; each of the creators has a distinctive perspective and area of excellence that would be fascinating to hear them expound upon, and while Jameson was a fun guest on the Howard Stern Show back in the days, does she really have enough to offer that would make her inclusion on such a panel anything other than a cheap gimmick?
And it’s sad to see that panels like this tend to segregate by gender rather than saying, “Hey! Here are some kickass creators, so get off your ass and hear what they have to say!” In my experience as both a comics fan and a pro, I’ve found that there is little if any difference in what male and female creators put on paper, the success of the results coming down to the individual’s talent. When I read the work of Gail Simone I don’t think, “Wow! Gail Simone sure writes good comics…for a woman,” and instead think, “Wow! Gail Simone is one hell of a writer,” and I feel that’s the kind of thinking that should go into creating a lineup for a convention panel/forum. Showcase the people with the talent and creativity and leave the gender bullshit out of it. It’s 2008, people, we should be past this by now.
“However if you put Frank Miller, Alan Moore, Stan Lee and Ron bloody Jeremy on a panel together, do you really think all of Dork-dom wouldn’t blow up the internet in an outrage?”
I would be outraged at lumping Frank Miller and Alan Moore together!
… Frank Miller and Ron Jeremy sound about right, though. Jenna would round out that panel nicely!
Eh, I doubt she’ll really add much to the panel aside from the “omg jenna jameson/porn star!” novelty. From what I’ve seen of her talking about comics she has little of interest to say, and from what I’ve seen of her comic’s previews it looks like a disjointed spawn/witchblade knockoff. D:
Altho it appears Jenna had little to do with Shadow Hunter other than lending her likeness to the lead character in a Witchblade knockoff, she IS a comic book creator and has been for over a decade. She co-wrote her comic book biography for Carnal Comics back in the mid-’90s, and she scripted a gothic fantasy/vampire comic for Carnal as well.
Plus, there’s Jenna’s Wicked Weapon superhero comic, based on a huge-budget adult action film of the same name that was one of the top-selling videos (and comics) of the ’90s. At the time, she did promotional appearances at adult book stores for her comic, turning countless adult fans onto comic books who might otherwise never have been interested in comics.
One of Jenna’s comic promos at Fairhaven Video in Florida attracted almost 1,000 people and landed her on several local and national news spots – promoting comic books! Jenna’s Wicked Weapon comic is STILL in print, over ten years later. The original video release had a bound-in Wicked Weapon comic book. The later DVD release included a full color semi-animated comic book feature, where viewers could switch back and forth between the live action film and related comic book scenes. Wicked Weapon won a bunch of adult film industry awards, including – most notably for comic fans – a “Best Marketing” award, due to the innovative comic book tie-ins.
All told, it’s entirely possible that more people have bought Jenna Jameson comic books than any other female-created comic of the past decade-plus. The Carnal Comics line itself has over a million comic books in print, having been the top-selling adults-only comic books in industry history. Carnal’s main artist for a long time was a woman, Fauve, aka Holly GoLightly of Broadsword Comics, as was their art director Heather Dawn, cover painter Michaela Tomassini, etc. Jenna has every right to be on the comic-con panel, including/especially one about women comic creators, no matter how silly and mildly demeaning the language of the panel announcement.
Some of you may not like Jenna, or adult comics in general, but the truth is that both have drawn tens of thousands of people into buying comic books who otherwise wouldn’t be interested —- the same thing may happen with Shadow Hunter. Speaking on behalf of Jenna, who I worked with on her comic books (the ones pre-dating Shadow Hunter, anyway), “You’re welcome.”
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