Last month’s Captain America :Steve Rogers #1 caused an uproar when it purported to reveal that Cap is actually a Hydra agent and has been since his mom was recruited into the racist organization back in the WWII day. While the transience of comic book storylines and shocking character changes is so common is to be something of a joke, even though the storyline was probably only temporary, many were offended that the idea that a hero created by Jewish creators during the actual WWII could be part of a hate group.
Well, in an exclusive interview with Comicbook.com Marel e-i-c- Axel Alonso spills all the beans, and the piece spoils the reveal–on sale tomorrow in CA:SR #2– right in the lede. Let’s just say a lot of readers had already picked up a can of these beans off the supermarket shelf, as the truth was clearly planted in issue #1. Alonso discusses the firestorm of reaction and the storyline in the piece:
CB: Naturally, the story caught fire and was covered by everyone under the sun? Was it the reaction you were expecting?
AA: We’re trained to anticipate a strong reaction to change or a big plot twist like this, whether it’s a female Thor or the new Ms. Marvel or the Korean-American Hulk. We didn’t expect the reaction to be anywhere this big. It was comparable to the way that people reacted to the death of Captain America. I think a lot of the people reacting most violently aren’t people that go to the comic book stores every Wednesday and are trained to understand the way the comics work and the rhythms and how we could do this kind of thing with our heroes.
Obviously, when people read issue 2, it’s going to provoke a whole new discussion amongst fans as the truth is revealed.
Being responsible reporters, we’ll put the spoiler in white type (mouse over for the shock of your life):
Captain America: Steve Rogers #2, from the creative team of writer Nick Spencer and artist Jesus Saiz, reveals that Steve’s memories of indoctrination were implanted by Kobik, the sentient Cosmic Cube who became a girl. Not only that, but Kobik has been under the influence of Steve Rogers’ most fearsome archenemies, the Red Skull, for months.
If you’re smart enough to have gotten this far, you probably already figured this out. The only problem is that writer Nick Spenser and editor Tom Brevoort already said it wasn’t brainwashing, over and over again.
Promo that tells porky pies? Say it isn’t so.
Also, if you were offended by Cap being a new-Nazi this doesn’t change that idea at all. Plus story wise, Hydra-Cap already threw someone out of a plane and how is he going to deal with THAT in the future.
So basically if you hated Marvel before you’re still going to hate Marvel.
It’s true. I still hate Marvel.
Is there some way to see the white text on a mobile version of the site? There’s no ‘mousing over’ for that.
It says this…”Captain America: Steve Rogers #2, from the creative team of writer Nick Spencer and artist Jesus Saiz, reveals that Steve’s memories of indoctrination were implanted by Kobik, the sentient Cosmic Cube who became a girl. Not only that, but Kobik has been under the influence of Steve Rogers’ most fearsome archenemies, the Red Skull, for months.”
Marvel has just gone from “The House of Ideas” to “The Casa of Crap”…
Copy the text and then paste it elsewhere – in a note, or draft of a comment…
Thanks!
Well, I expected as much which is why I never got the reaction to it. I hate being all “these people didn’t read the comic/don’t read comics” but it’s such an obvious issue #1 and Marvel cliffhanger play that of course it’d be revealed if not in issue 2 at least 4 what’s really going on. All of that makes me think it’s now even more in poor tase mainly because Spencer and Co. did such a bad job convincingly lying about it.
Maybe the problem is not the creators or the editors but the legion of “fans” and “journalists” that overanalyze and ruin everything on the internet. You know what’s kinda fun? Just reading comics. With no one else’s commentary. The internet appears to be full of those three annoying guys at the comic shop that I hated so much as a kid. They had opinions on everything, ruined everything, and never fucking left.
I hope that was worth all the trivializing of Jewish people for.
If this is the best story they could come up with, it’s no wonder comic sales are awful.
Oop, you got a sentence ending in a preposition there.
I hope that trivializing of Jewish people was for all the worth.
There we go. Err, wait- … Worth all of which- No… Cause it’s the Jewish’s worth…
Well, the content of the spoiler was exactly the theory that some fans had already posited. It doesn’t come as a surprise, really.
I think charging the people behind this Captain America story with trivializing the Jewish people is ill considered and not supported by any evidence (not sound evidence anyway, just a wildly liberal interpretation of the text). I know wild accusations, slurs and curses are pretty common place, particularly here, but it’s still distressing and still disheartening to me to read. I’d urge everyone to adopt a more measured, sober approach to debate and commentary.
I already hated Marvel and DC equally.
This is stupid not for Brevoort’s idiotic company line response last month suggesting it absolutely was Steve Rogers and not a memory implant, or for a comic company using a shocking plot device or big change or trivializing a minority’s experience in WW2.
No, this is stupid because if it plays out as described, it trivializes the Cosmic Cube. Wait. Stay with me. The Cosmic Cube has the power to alter reality, not just implant parlor trick memories.
If it merely implanted false memories then Brevoort is a liar and the Red Skull is woefully underutilizing the Cosmic Cube as a weapon. He could have used it to alter the reality of Steve Rogers, making him an actual Hydra Agent in his actual altered past rather than using it to make Steve Rogers merely think he is a Hydra Agent.
I know, inside baseball for geeks, but dammit these people should at least try.
Silly but True
if you search this site for the “fans vs. pros: you’re doing it wrong” thread and scroll down to the very last comment you’ll see this is exactly what i thought the story was gonna be (well, not so much the kobik angle, but definitely that the red skull was involved and implanting false memories and OW!!!, i just broke my arm patting myself on the back). as for the cosmic cube, it’s now a sentient being, which i would think brings into play anyone trying to influence said being has to tread lightly and not try to bring about too many changes to reality too fast. baby steps, ’cause after all, kobik for all intent and purposes is still something of a baby and the skull probably has no problem taking his sweet time in slowly but surely corrupting and defeating rogers, savoring every moment, which we all know in the world of comics will spell his utter and complete defeat, where we get to watch cap kick the shit out of nazi scum, which never gets old.
I would say accusing them of trivializing the feelings of Jewish people is fair because whether or not that was the intent, it certainly was the outcome.
When I grow up, I want to be a sentient cosmic cube that becomes a girl.
So, who looks worse?
1. The fans who flipped out.
2. Marvel editorial for blatantly lying to the fans to provoke them into flipping out.
3. The creators who really aren’t creating anything but another lame, anti-climactic bit of nonsense that no one would have paid a lick of attention to without the whole “No, this is the real Cap!” hype.
Mike
As I said weeks ago, in a totally-not-flipping-out manner, was that this who concept is lame, gimmicky, bad writing. It also keeps people from being able to read the real Captain America. I’m fine with gimmicky stuff now and then. Death of Superman was great. Lady Thor was been really good. However, it seems like all of Marvel’s old roster is gone. Cap, in particular, seems to never be around. When they killed off Cap, it took forever for him to get back, then they turned around and made him old. Now he’s a villain. When will Steve Rogers return to Steve Rogers? For how long?? Does Marvel not have any faith that the original character is actually compelling in 2016? Has the House of Ideas run out?
“I would say accusing them of trivializing the feelings of Jewish people is fair because whether or not that was the intent, it certainly was the outcome.”
HYDRA and Nazis are not the same thing. HYDRA is a stateless terrorist organization, much like al-Qaida. The Red Skull is a Nazi (or was when I was reading the book, 30 years ago), but nobody accused Marvel of “trivializing the feelings of the Jewish people” when he was used.
Have we reached the point where Nazis cannot be used in a fictional story anymore, even as villains, because it might hurt someone’s feelings?
Marvel didn’t alter the HYDRA Cap story to appease fans. A lesson in how comics are made:
http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/06/28/no-marvel-didnt-change-the-hydra-cap-story-to-appease-fans
hate to tell ya George, but if it goose-steps like a Nazi, acts like a Nazis, and spews the same rhetoric that Nazis’ have been spewing for decades, it’s a Nazi. Zemo, baron Strucker, Armin Zola, Sin, Red Skull, even baron Blood (a nazi vampire, sheesh)are all Nazis, and so are the guys in those green and yellow jump suits that follow them (not sure about crossbones, is he a Nazi or just a thug?). just because hydra doesn’t have a country of origin, it doesn’t make them any less Nazi. now i don’t have a problem with Nazis being used in these stories, ’cause i always love the part when these Nazi bastards get their asses handed to them. also don’t think the outrage is over the use of Nazis being used in these stories, but the fact that cap was being turned into (or always had been) an nazi, but c’mon, did anyone really think marvel was gonna take one of their most visible characters and turn him into a Nazi forever? c’mon, really?
ABC: i bet you see no difference between Democrats and Republicans, either.
The people who are throwing tantrums over “Captain HYDRA” and making accusations of anti-Semitism are very childish, very immature people. They should move out of their parents’ basements and grow up ASAP.
I could understand the over-the-top reaction if this were 1973, when the average Marvel reader was 13. Most of today’s readers aren’t kids. They seem to be adults who can’t tell the difference between reality and fantasy stories about men in tights.
I only hope the people going berserk over Cap are a very small but very vocal minority.
george, so some people are losing their minds over this cap situation. so what. there will always be people that will react without getting the full story of any given situation, that’s just how some folks are. once the full story is known and explained, these folks usually calm down and go on their merry way and i agree that some folks out there are over reacting without getting the full story, i don’t agree with calling these folks “immature”, they are entitled to their opinion just like you and me. but that’s the thing about nazism, it invokes such strong feelings of disgust in people that they will strongly react without getting the full story, even if it involves something as silly as a comic book. maybe i’m wrong but i’m getting the vibe that you have a problem with nazi characters getting their asses handed to them, to even go so far as to say the red skull isn’t a nazi and hydra isn’t an nazi organization? over the course of marvel history there has been many a story involving hydra where there were swastikas all over the place. even in the first issue of this new cap series, the red skull, speaking to a room full of recruits, goes on and on, blaming others for the misfortunes of these recruits. this is stuff straight out of the nazi recruitment handbook. the recruit (or hydra/nazi soldier) robbie dean tomlin even has a swastika on his arm. maybe they’re not called nazis’ in these stories anymore, but their rhetoric, their philosophy is unmistakable. oh, and i can see the differences between democrats and republicans, can you?
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