not a baby, but close

Sun and Jin, before the island. what times those were.

For talk of Sun and Jin ON the Island and maybe more, read on, Macduff.

Well, it certainly looks like the “DUI Curse” is going to claim another victim, eh? Jin’s tombstone + a “someone will die next week” promo = the producers wanting us to think in a certain direction. But those guys are tricky. What WAS that date on the tombstone? I’ve heard already it was the date of the plane crash. Hmmmmmm.

Random thoughts from immediately after the episode (even if you don’t read this until morning):

* So we can now have Flash BACKS and Flash FORWARDS in the same episode? Devilish

* Who else wanted to see the Juliet vs. Sun catfight? I’m not too ashamed to admit it.

* Hurley is such a good dude. It figures that no one would come, even with their Golden Tickets.

* Do you TRUST the Captain?

* Do you trust JULIET?

* That was one quick cameo from Zoe Bell. Boo.

* Hooray for Bernard.

* if you haven’t heard yet, next week’s episode is called “Meet Kevin Johnson,” and we don’t mean the former NBA guard. The title didn’t mean much when I heard it earlier today on the LOST podcast, but it sure does now.

And a week without Ben and Locke is a sad week indeed.

40 COMMENTS

  1. Here’s what I’m wondering: Is Sun’s baby the 6th member of the Oceanic 6? I haven’t really followed message boards about Lost, but here’s who I think are the Oceanic 6: Sun, Hurley, Sayid, Kate, Jack, and now Sun’s baby? Or am I missing someone? It’s kind of lame that they count the baby, IMO. The baby was conceived on the island, so technically, it didn’t survive the plane crash. But that could just be their cover to say that Jin died on the plane, so Sun had to have been pregnant before take off.

  2. most people seem to think Aaron is #6.

    Of course, he “was on the plane” but not a passenger, as it were.

  3. The ABC marketing department certainly thinks Aaron is #6.

    The Kate flash-forward episode was trumpeted with ads claiming “the next of the Oceanic Six will be revealed.” Aaron was the only character revealed that week.

  4. Right, and Sun was “the last of the Oceanic Six” according to last week’s promo.

    I think people are supposed to believe Aaron is literally Kate’s kid. Certainly Kate’s mom seemed to think of Aaron as her grandkid.

    “Oceanic Six” then means not just passengers but everyone rescued following Oceanic’s crash. Sun’s baby didn’t count as he was not yet born.

  5. I would certainly like to see at least a cameo from one-time Phoenix Suns great Kevin “KJ” Johnson, that’s all I’m sayin…and kudos for picking up on that, Heidi.

  6. In all fairness, Kate probably would have come if not for her legal troubles. But that still doesn’t excuse Jack and Sayid for not showing up.

  8. In the Kate flashforward episode, when Jack was on the stand, he said 8 of them survived the crash. I guess part of their cover story is that two people died before they were rescued. So I guess one of the two people who died in the cover story is Jin, so that all the dates line up for Sun to have conceived the baby.

  9. Ah, I forgot about Aaron. Well, that still sucks as far as who gets off the island. It’s really on 5 characters that you’re invested in (with the exception of Ben and some other non-flight 815 people). I was hoping for a sixth adult.

  10. I’m not clear on the flashforward timeline, but maybe by this time Jack is already starting to spiral into crazy and he was too busy flying around, hoping to crash to come and see Sun.

    Hmmm, except Jack was still fine when Hurley was in the institution.

    I doubt that Ben lets Sayid take time off from dealing with his List.

  12. So now the question arises: in whatever phony story the castaways have been instructed to tell, what’s the advantage of saying that two passengers lived through the crash but died later? There’s no reason we know of that Jin couldn’t have died in the crash, or Claire either, given that it seems Kate’s passing herself off as the baby mommy.

  13. I’m less interested in who got off the island than I am in who is still there and why. I’ve seen spoiler notes that listed Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, Sun and Jin as the Oceanic 6 but added that one of those names isn’t 100% certain. Jin’s death date is given as the date of the crash which means he did not survive that day. He only survived long enough to get off the plane. There are PLENTY of human remains to be had on the island if they had to fake that. Who would bother with DNA? Or maybe there’s nothing in the grave and it’s just a memorial?

    Though unless they thought that Sun’s apartment is bugged, I don’t know why Hurley would say “Let’s go see Jin” between themselves if Jin isn’t buried there. Though it may be that in leaving the island with no hope of return they have to consider everyone left behind as “dead”.

    But Jin said that he would follow her anywhere.

    All together very deliciously weird.

    I’m not disappointed about the Oceanic 6 (5. I seriously doubt that the show is going to go from being a large ensemble cast to just following around five people. The story is going to continue on the island in their absence and then the last part of the series is going to be about the Oceanic 6 trying to get back.

  14. Re: the dates lining up– which moves slower, the time of the real world or that of the island world?

    Of course it also depends on when the castaways get back to the real world. If it’s only the three months and some days that we last heard referenced, then Jin could create the baby pre-flight and no one would look too hard. If the Six don’t get to leave for a longer period, then yeah, Jin would also have to “live” for a longer period.

  15. Here’s something else that just occurred to me: we’re assuming (at least I’ve been assuming) that the Oceanic 6 are rescued by the folks on the freighter. Except that the folks on the freighter are there to get/kill Ben. But it’s Ben who is the puppet-master of the Oceanic 6. If Ben is managing the Oceanic 6 then *he* is responsible for getting them off the island, not Widmore’s freighter. And yet… (my brain is about to explode)… at last check Ben was allied with Locke and it’s Locke’s folk who don’t want to leave. Yet Ben helps some people leave (including Hurley from the “I don’t want to leave” camp) and leaves himself. (Brain explodes).

    Everything that we’ve seen so far—the division into two groups and the arrival of the freighter—has (next to) nothing to do with who gets rescued. Something must be about to go all sideways very soon.

  16. I was very sadden by the fact that Jin died, especially considering how Jin and Sun relationship had developed and flourished during their time on the island.

    As for the whole DUI Curse, there are two theories – the producers and writers kill off any actors who get DUIs. Or the actors get DUI drunk because they just found they are being written off.

  17. No one said Jin was dead. Just that the world is supposed to think he’s dead.

    I assumed Jin now has a role like Sayid, and that there was a bomb in the Panda. Was that really a flashback?

  19. Well, when the nurse mentioned that maybe he would have his own baby someday, he said, “Don’t rush me. I have only been married for 2 months!” So I am pretty sure it was a flashback.

  20. Please note, our regular LOST round-ups are written by the irreplaceable Mark Coale, not The Beat!

    My only thought after watching this show last night is that with the ending point now set, the shows are finally ABOUT the story and not time filling with dissapperances and misunderstanding and golf and what not. Things are getting good.

    I was sad that Zoe Bell’s character lasted all of 1 mintue. Add her to the Mrs. Klugh Hall of Fame of Women Who Died Too Soon.

  21. I’m not sure the Jin storyline was a flashback. I too think it may have been a flash-forward, and everyone just THINKS he’s dead. Who knows? I stopped trying to guess what’s happening on this show long ago! I’m just enjoying the slow, confusing reveal!

  22. The Jin scenes were definitely a flashback. He’s using an old cellphone, it’s the year of the Dragon (2000), and he’s only been married two months (and clearly not angsty about fatherhood).

    Aaron as one of the “Oceanic 6” doesn’t add up. Sure, I can see how the media might consider Kate’s then-unborn child as a “passenger” on the flight, but the cover story is that 8 people* made it ashore after the crash, 2 people died… plus Aaron was born. That’d be 7 if you count him.

    *Not “7 people, one of whom was pregnant”

  23. Clues that Jin’s story was a flashback: Year of the Dragon (February 2000 – January 2001), old model cell phone, still working for Paik, only married for 2 months and, most tellingly, acting like a dick. I doubt that New & Improved Jin would get enraged and splash out ridiculous amounts of money for a stuffed animal when his _baby_ is being born.

    I’m 95% certain that Jin’s dead, but even the definitely dead can come back on this show.

  26. 2012 is also going to be the year of the dragon. maybe it was a really forwardy flash forward and jin becomes a jerk again and gets married to someone else.

    nah.

  27. I am just going to state the obvious and say it was possibly one of the most confusing but still engaging episodes of the series.

    I don’t approve of Aaron being one of the 6. I dislike the boy for this reason alone. It could very easily be Ben who is the other 6. Would it really be beyond his abilities to assume the identity of one of the dead passengers? Sure it is tricky, and his scheming comes into play, but what’s the best place to hide: in plain sight. If comic books have taught me nothing it is that one rule.

    I really feel I need to see Jin fuck some shit up before he gets taken out though. He always gets upstaged in the ass-kicking, and I want to see him unleash the dragon!

  28. I’m not sure we’ve seen the last of Zoe Bell.

    I don’t know, but if I was Captain Gault (His namesake was a smuggler and criminal known for putting up ruses/cons to get what he wanted), I might want someone I can trust seeking out the saboteur without anyone on the crew knowing she’s looking for him.

    Say she’s a trained diver, wouldn’t take much for her to drop those chains just after she hit the water and head to a spot on the ship the Captain set to be clear of crewmen and up a rope ladder.

    Then she hides out on the boat and waits, looks for signs of the saboteur. He’s got a set of eyes on the boat no one is expecting. They could’ve decided to use the mental illness as a ruse after losing the other crewmen mentioned.

    I mean, based on the Captain’s name, and names mean a lot in Lost, I’m pretty sure he’s not what he seems or what the characters are initially going to think he is(true a lot on this show).

    Maybe it’s just I want more Zoe Bell. :D

  29. I think both Zoe Bell and Fisher Stevens will probably be in next week’s show, since it’s Michael’s flashback about how he ended up on the boat.

  30. I agree with ElCoyote. Without more build-up of her character and motivation, Zoë Bell’s character’s suicide is a bit of a non sequitur and a waste of Zoë Bell. But there are no non sequiturs on Lost…

  31. just stole this from the WAPO Lost Chat. Allegedly what it says on he tombstone:

    First column says: Spouse, Paik Sun Hwa.

    Second Column: 1980 Year 3 Month 20 Day Date of Birth

    Third Column(CENTER): Grave of Kwon Jin Soo (male??)

    Fourth Column: 1974 Year 11 Month 27 Day Date of Birth

    Fifth Column: 2004 Year 9 Month 22 Day Date of Death.

  32. IMDb lists Zoe Bell’s participation in four episodes of Lost. One has to wonder why the Captain was so adamant that no one go after her.

  33. I trust the captain, but I don’t trust whoever slipped the note under the door. I think the captain’s pretty much straightforward.

    I would have rather had Sun die, honestly. I like Jin more than her, but I do like them both. I know people don’t like them, just because they’re Japanese, they force you to read subtitles, or they’re not the top tier characters.

    I have liked basically every character this show has had to offer, even Nikki and Paulo.

    Why would the date on Jin’s tombstone be the date of the crash? Do they pretend that Jin died in the crash? Does that mean he dies before they are rescued?

    I believe that another group comes to save the Oceanic Six. I don’t care who saves them, but I’m wondering what happens to all these other people who are on the island? Is there massive bloodshed? Will there be an Others comeback?

  34. 1) They’re Korean, not Japanese. (I have a friend who was turned off from Lost by the subtitles, but he reads at a 4th grade level with difficulty, so I don’t think that’s a widespread complaint.)

    2) The date on Jin’s tombstone is the date of the crash because the Oceanic Six are telling the world that nearly everyone died in the crash. If you were on Oceanic 815, and your name isn’t Kate, Jack, Hugo, Sayid, Sun, or… one other name… you’ve been declared legally dead. It’s safe to say that the same date appears on (vacant) tomb for Shannon, Boone, Charlie, Nikki, Paolo, Arzt, Ana-Lucia, Eko, Scott, Libby, the marshal, and the pilot… not to mention for (pick all but one) Claire, Jack, Rose, Bernard, Sawyer, Michael, Walt, Steve, and Cindy.

  36. Wouldn’t it be great if next season the Oceanic Six return to the Island to find that a much longer period of time has passed on the Island than in the real world?

    I would love to see Jack, Kate, and Hurley etc. return to an Island at war (perhaps with Sawyer and Locke leading opposing factions), trying to choose sides, and trying to wring the Island’s secret out of their former crashmates who now know the truth!

  37. It’s great to know that after 4 friggin’ seasons’ worth of episodes, Honkey McCracker can’t wrap his brain around the fact that all Asians aren’t Japanese. Banzai!

    And man, is anyone else actually sad that Jin ate it? Oh, why couldn’t it have been Jack or Kate or one of the other incredibly annoying “lead” characters? I thought Jin was one of the most compelling characters, and probably the one that had the most “growth.” Not to mention the most ignored. He always seems to get particularly underplayed in the physical conflicts. Other than Sayid, he’s the only guy that actually killed people for a living, and he’s always the first to be dispatched or left behind. WEAK.

    On a plot note, does anyone else think maybe Paik and Widmore may be in cahoots? They’re both “evil” and rich enough to pull off the fake plane crash, and if anyone can procure that many dead bodies, I’d imagine it’d be Paik.

  38. I don’t think Jin is really dead. I think he’s still on the island. Otherwise why would his death date be the date of the crash? Sun lamented aloud that Jin couldn’t be with her – but no one said he was dead. As someone pointed out, there’s probably a lot of graves out there for passengers that are actually very alive. Jin being alive will be one of the pleasant surprises towards the end of the series. In the meantime, everyone will be expecting him to bite it every time there’s trouble.

    It’s gonna be Ben in the coffin. Why else would Kate have had the reaction she did? “WHY would I go to HIS funeral?” The name in the obituary Jack was looking at was unfamiliar, and we know now that Ben has traveled off-island at times and apparently has numerous aliases.

  39. Okay, my two cents is that Michael is both the six member of the Oceanic Six as well as the mystery man in the coffin. I think that’s why Kate was disgusted about the funeral…because he had betrayed the rest of them and went to work for Ben.

    If Jin turns out to be alive, that would be a nice twist, but I’m fearing the worst. As far as butt-kicking goes, his face off with Mikhail last year was a high point for me.

  40. Seven of the eight who “survived” the crash have to be: Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, Sun, Claire, Jin. Jin would have to “survive” to impregnate Sun, and Claire would have to survive for Aaron to be born.

    The Oceanic Six, as far as I can tell: Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, Sun & Aaron.

    I think Jin is still alive on the island.

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