“I’ve have a relatively small 1k ft store in NJ about 20 miles from NYC”

If you’ve gotten in a car and left Manhattan, but you haven’t gone through any farmland yet, you’re still “in a major city”. You’re just in the suburbs.

No offense, but you seriously, completely, have no idea what you’re talking about.

-B

The plural of anecdotes of a store here or there pushing an indie book isn’t data. Look at the insanely shitty sales of indy books. Obviously something is wrong. Either they are not being supported or are not selling. Either way, they’re not hitting sustainable numbers. I’m guessing that the few indy acts that are pulling in a livable wage are doing so via the trades, which move through Amazon anyway.

Nope, their original business model is, which is why they’ve been whoring themselves out to Hollywood money men.

Now whose off his rocker! C’mon now Nate, you know that’s not true. I’ve have a relatively small 1k ft store in NJ about 20 miles from NYC and we have a very healthy section of indie stuff (that’s not Vertigo) and we’re always recommending those for people looking for material outside of the superhero genre. And I know a number of my fellow retailers in my area who do likewise. Listen, the general level of professionalism for comic stores may not reach of the level of a B&N, BORDERS, or other big box stores (and it certainly should be better) but most retailers I know are working hard folks who WANT to provide their customers with everything they want to read. Unfortunately, not everyone has the resources to do so, so they must pick and choose and buy what they perceive as most sellable. We’re not all bad guys out here [I swore I wouldn't get involved in another one of these discussions....].

I’m sorry, Heidi. I guess I’m reading too much into the monthly sales numbers (y’know – 35k average monthly sales) and Rocketship crashing…as well as no other non-superhero comic store being able to exist in the country. I mean, yeah, the content is top notch nowadays and digital is going to be a lifeboat of sorts, but the industry has not grown in over a decade and is getting smaller. I understand the comics industry is your meal ticket and it’s scary to think that industry is dying – I’m sure I’d feel the same way if/when my industry begins to crumble – but it’s happening. You don’t have to like it and you can tell me I need a “time out” or ban me or whatever, but an industry without growth or change that’s clinging onto a certain customer isn’t really in line to survive.

Brian Hibbs is, of course, off his rocker, because what comic store not in a major city has ever recommended any non-superhero book to anybody? I’ve been in stores that think Vertigo is alternative, indie comics and have been scolded by comic shop owners for requesting “weird indie shit” like Madman from Previews. I know you live in NYC with stores that sell all sorts of indie comics, but that’s not what it’s like in the MidWest. In the rest of the country, outside of magical places like NYC or SF, it’s superhero comics only, which means a crowd that only goes to the store on Wednesday, and that’s not sustainable. Comic stores can’t survive without the Wednesday Crowd and the crowd is dying. These are people who are typically mid-age overweight smokers who eat really poor food. Their clocks are running out fast.

I’m not a digital detractor, but thanks for assigning that straw man to me. I think ebooks are the best thing ever and when iPads and comparable devices are commonplace, it’s going to make print obsolete and I want that day to come faster. I absolutely hate print and I’d rather read everything digitally. I just know I’m in the minority – the guy who would like to read Love & Rockets on my iPad.

What empirical proof is there Marvel and DC will survive? The way they sell comics to kids? The kids think superheroes are from video games and movies, they don’t even know the comics exist. With the superhero decadence content, would you want them reading the comics anyway? At some point, Marvel and DC decided it was more profitable to keep selling to the old folks already going to comic stores and give up on kids.

Obviously, this is to be expected — they’re generalists, not specialists — but it would appear to me that without the DM there are huge swaths of comics material that simply aren’t getting racked at all. (insert some sort of caveat about “not all DM stores..” here, if you like)

That’s what I mean by “a narrow wedge”.

It seems reasonably clear to me — and YMMV, au natural — that the vast majority of content, in any media, never gets an honest chance at retail, and it further seems clear to me that the monetization of that content, digitally, lags far behind the monetization of the physical object in almost every case.

I don’t think that Digital is “the land of milk and honey” for most publishers (or creators, for that matter), in almost any media, though I certainly think that it can be wonderful for the consumer — I’m not seeing m/any publishers crowing about how great digital is for their bottom line… and, really, quite the opposite.

In comics there is one fairly vasty advantage — Marvel and DC, at least, can start making money off “back issues” in a way they’ve never really been able to capitalize on in the past… but I suspect this will make them very small amounts of money compared to their front list. (Not talking “Sandman”… I’m talking about “Batman #126″)

-B

I’m all for healthy skepticism but your “the end is nigh” attitude is just lame.

Thank you. That is exactly the opinion I have, but you just said it better. The party’s wrapping up, so the publishers are trying to grab every last dollar before the lights go out.

If it weren’t for bookstores there would be no comcis for girls or kids now. I would hardly call that a “narrow wedge.” I’ve seen the Bookscan numbers, and last time I ran the charts comparing Diamond sales to bookstore sales, bookstores were at least 66% of DM sales. How is that a narrow wedge?

I would venture to say we’re at that point now. This is why I think Marvel is flooding the zone with more and more titles…most of which are at the $3.99 level. There seems to be a recognition at the publisher level that the party’s almost over, and it’s time for “profit taking” while there’s still a willing and compliant population of addicts…er…buyers.

SRS

The publishers and distributors have always had similar discussions about creating marketing programs or subsidies that will drive traffic to the comics shops and nothing truly meaningful or long lasting has every come from any attempt. (I’m talking real long term marketing, planning and investment, not “Superman is dead, again!” blips). Every year (since the early ’90s) the direct market shrinks. Despite everything that makes shopping in your favorite comic store enjoyable.

Hibbs and others in his position have been around long enough to know better. But they don’t, for whatever reasons. The response is to rage against the machine or sit placated by lip service and ignore reality, real world retail history and economics. This was a “calm down” meeting that ultimately means nothing to the comic retailer.

This topic for today’s media retailer (books, comics, DVDs, music) is not an argument or battle or debate. It’s evolution. Some will be able to figure out a way through the changes and many won’t.

I was speaking more to Hibbs’ theory of digital comics’ potential, meaning its function in a future where it’s fully implemented and has achieved a level of mass awareness (much like music and iTunes). In other words, I reject Hibbs’ notion that, in that “potential” future, digital comics customers will NOT be driven to book and mortar stores…especially if the digital “portal” was how they were introduced to comics in the first place.