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	<title>Comments on: It Was Long Overdue</title>
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		<title>By: John Shableski</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/07/08/it-was-long-overdue/#comment-50250</link>
		<dc:creator>John Shableski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jul 2010 19:40:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/?p=14259#comment-50250</guid>
		<description>In reference to the question about &quot;who do you talk to at the publishers?&quot;  The real challenge there is getting the comics guys to comprehend what cataloging means or what PCIP means.  The conversations I&#039;ve been having with them is that a MARC record is your electronic finger print.  If you dont have this created, and you dont have accurate LOC subject headings, you have a greater challenge of having your books found.  Houses like First Second, or GT Labs know how to do this.  Jim Ottaviani at GT Labs has an excellent grasp of this(I think he was actually a cataloger during his school years).   But the guys who come from the comics world are only now just figuring out the size of the traditional book trade market.  There&#039;s a lot for these guys to absorb.  Some of them are now bringing &#039;book trade&#039; people onto their staffs which is a nice start.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reference to the question about &#8220;who do you talk to at the publishers?&#8221;  The real challenge there is getting the comics guys to comprehend what cataloging means or what PCIP means.  The conversations I&#8217;ve been having with them is that a MARC record is your electronic finger print.  If you dont have this created, and you dont have accurate LOC subject headings, you have a greater challenge of having your books found.  Houses like First Second, or GT Labs know how to do this.  Jim Ottaviani at GT Labs has an excellent grasp of this(I think he was actually a cataloger during his school years).   But the guys who come from the comics world are only now just figuring out the size of the traditional book trade market.  There&#8217;s a lot for these guys to absorb.  Some of them are now bringing &#8216;book trade&#8217; people onto their staffs which is a nice start.</p>
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		<title>By: Synsidar</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/07/08/it-was-long-overdue/#comment-50061</link>
		<dc:creator>Synsidar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jul 2010 22:59:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/?p=14259#comment-50061</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s the reasoning, several years ago, for using &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.oclc.org/dewey/discussion/papers/graphicnovels.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Dewey&#039;s &quot;741.5&quot; with its subdivisions for graphic novels, cartoons, etc.&lt;/a&gt;:


&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;em&gt;We have tentatively decided to keep graphic novels in 741.5 and its subdivisions, where we have been classing them with cartoons, caricatures, and comics. Our proposal is to improve the development at 741.5 rather than to relocate graphic novels to another set of numbers. First, the DDC puts works that combine graphic arts and literature in the 700s with the arts, not in the 800s with literature; hence graphic novels belong somewhere in the DDC 700s, not with strictly textual novels in the 800s. Second, graphic novels share so many characteristics with comic books and collections of comic strips that separating graphic novels would be difficult for classifiers to do consistently. We also believe it would not be helpful for most end users. Many discussions of graphic novels, even though they may acknowledge a narrow definition of the term, go on to use a broad definition that includes not only stand-alone stories in comics form published as books but also collections of stories initially published serially in comic books and collections of newspaper comic strips reprinted in book form. We have tentatively decided to treat everything from single-frame caricatures to three-frame newspaper comic strips to comic books to graphic novels all in the same way. Although this is a broad range of material, we have found no good places to break the continuum so as to separate the material usefully into different categories. We propose to change the notes and captions at 741.5 and its subdivisions to make clear that all these kinds of materials are being treated the same way.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/em&gt;

A lot of librarians hate that approach. One &lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.schoollibrarymedia.com/index.php/2010/06/13/dear-comic-book-authors-and-illustrators/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;blogged about it&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;em&gt;Here’s what bugs you about us librarians: we might all agree to call Garfield a comic, but we librarians do love to call everything else a graphic novel.  Even if it is not a novel.  Laika, about the Soviet dog in space? We call that a graphic novel.  It’s not. It’s non-fiction.  Smile, a memoir? We call that a graphic novel, too.  Myths? Legends? Bring ‘em on. We’ll call ‘em all graphic novels.  Part comic, part text, like Diary of a Wimpy Kid? Absolutely. Graphic Novel.  Frankly, if it has a story that goes on beyond four panels, we graphicnovelize it.

That bothers you. A lot. I heard you loud and clear. [. . .]

Meanwhile, if I bought a biography in graphic format, it went in biographies; and it if was a Max Axiom book about energy, it went in the 300s.  And that’s technically correct cataloguing, too — if the book’s primary purpose is to “persuade or inform,” it goes into the subject area to which it belongs.

Guess which titles circulated? The 741.5s.  Guess which ones didn’t? The biographies and 300s.  Guess which books I moved into 741.5 so they’d start getting kids’ hands? Yup. [. . ]

But here’s the thing. The 741.5 Club, the GN Brigade and you, the creators, have the same objective: to get your works into users’ hands. All librarians are trying to do is put items that are visually similar into the same place, because our users/patrons/students are currently choosing what to read based on the format it’s in.  If we put T-Minus next to the space books, it’s not going to get into users’ hands as much as if we put it next to Bone.  We’d rather have your stuff get read.  And so do you. 

So help us out. Give us some time to build our collections until the point that graphic content / comics / sequential art / books with panels-and-balloons can be further subdivided (or the economy improves and we aren’t so frightened of taxpayer/administrator backlash).  In the meantime, try not to fret. And keep writing. Our kids love what you do. That’s why we put it where they can find it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s the reasoning, several years ago, for using <a href="http://www.oclc.org/dewey/discussion/papers/graphicnovels.htm" rel="nofollow">Dewey&#8217;s &#8220;741.5&#8243; with its subdivisions for graphic novels, cartoons, etc.</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>We have tentatively decided to keep graphic novels in 741.5 and its subdivisions, where we have been classing them with cartoons, caricatures, and comics. Our proposal is to improve the development at 741.5 rather than to relocate graphic novels to another set of numbers. First, the DDC puts works that combine graphic arts and literature in the 700s with the arts, not in the 800s with literature; hence graphic novels belong somewhere in the DDC 700s, not with strictly textual novels in the 800s. Second, graphic novels share so many characteristics with comic books and collections of comic strips that separating graphic novels would be difficult for classifiers to do consistently. We also believe it would not be helpful for most end users. Many discussions of graphic novels, even though they may acknowledge a narrow definition of the term, go on to use a broad definition that includes not only stand-alone stories in comics form published as books but also collections of stories initially published serially in comic books and collections of newspaper comic strips reprinted in book form. We have tentatively decided to treat everything from single-frame caricatures to three-frame newspaper comic strips to comic books to graphic novels all in the same way. Although this is a broad range of material, we have found no good places to break the continuum so as to separate the material usefully into different categories. We propose to change the notes and captions at 741.5 and its subdivisions to make clear that all these kinds of materials are being treated the same way.</em></p></blockquote>
<p>A lot of librarians hate that approach. One <a href="http://blog.schoollibrarymedia.com/index.php/2010/06/13/dear-comic-book-authors-and-illustrators/" rel="nofollow">blogged about it</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>Here’s what bugs you about us librarians: we might all agree to call Garfield a comic, but we librarians do love to call everything else a graphic novel.  Even if it is not a novel.  Laika, about the Soviet dog in space? We call that a graphic novel.  It’s not. It’s non-fiction.  Smile, a memoir? We call that a graphic novel, too.  Myths? Legends? Bring ‘em on. We’ll call ‘em all graphic novels.  Part comic, part text, like Diary of a Wimpy Kid? Absolutely. Graphic Novel.  Frankly, if it has a story that goes on beyond four panels, we graphicnovelize it.</p>
<p>That bothers you. A lot. I heard you loud and clear. [. . .]</p>
<p>Meanwhile, if I bought a biography in graphic format, it went in biographies; and it if was a Max Axiom book about energy, it went in the 300s.  And that’s technically correct cataloguing, too — if the book’s primary purpose is to “persuade or inform,” it goes into the subject area to which it belongs.</p>
<p>Guess which titles circulated? The 741.5s.  Guess which ones didn’t? The biographies and 300s.  Guess which books I moved into 741.5 so they’d start getting kids’ hands? Yup. [. . ]</p>
<p>But here’s the thing. The 741.5 Club, the GN Brigade and you, the creators, have the same objective: to get your works into users’ hands. All librarians are trying to do is put items that are visually similar into the same place, because our users/patrons/students are currently choosing what to read based on the format it’s in.  If we put T-Minus next to the space books, it’s not going to get into users’ hands as much as if we put it next to Bone.  We’d rather have your stuff get read.  And so do you. </p>
<p>So help us out. Give us some time to build our collections until the point that graphic content / comics / sequential art / books with panels-and-balloons can be further subdivided (or the economy improves and we aren’t so frightened of taxpayer/administrator backlash).  In the meantime, try not to fret. And keep writing. Our kids love what you do. That’s why we put it where they can find it.</em></p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Martha Cornog</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/07/08/it-was-long-overdue/#comment-50052</link>
		<dc:creator>Martha Cornog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jul 2010 19:06:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/?p=14259#comment-50052</guid>
		<description>One thing that could get the attention of comics publishers is for folks who write/blog about comics for librarian readers and the library press is to send clips or links of their reviews/articles to comics marketing reps. Most publishers, comics or otherwise, yearn for good--even merely decent--reviews. Some publishers (and cartoonists) do run excerpts of librarian press reviews/articles on back covers and websites, even if they don&#039;t put the bucks into exhibiting at ALA. And YALSA should make sure (if they don&#039;t already) that marketing reps from GGNT publishers know that their titles have been selected.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing that could get the attention of comics publishers is for folks who write/blog about comics for librarian readers and the library press is to send clips or links of their reviews/articles to comics marketing reps. Most publishers, comics or otherwise, yearn for good&#8211;even merely decent&#8211;reviews. Some publishers (and cartoonists) do run excerpts of librarian press reviews/articles on back covers and websites, even if they don&#8217;t put the bucks into exhibiting at ALA. And YALSA should make sure (if they don&#8217;t already) that marketing reps from GGNT publishers know that their titles have been selected.</p>
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		<title>By: Robin B.</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/07/08/it-was-long-overdue/#comment-50049</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jul 2010 17:25:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/?p=14259#comment-50049</guid>
		<description>This is a really basic question, but I&#039;m betting it&#039;s something that many librarians wonder about.  We&#039;re all for making noise (as a profession we do that rather well for something we care about, despite stereotypes of being shushers).  I&#039;m more at a loss of who to talk to at publishers.  I&#039;ve TOLD publishers at the shows, and after the shows, and I&#039;m frequently brushed off.  How do I know who to speak to?  How does any librarian know who to speak to at an individual publisher?

The only list I know if is over at Early Word: http://www.earlyword.com/publishers/

Karen, I totally feel your pain -- I run into much the same problem.  So, clearly we need a group of librarians to storm OCLC and fix all of the cataloging from years past!  Once more unto the breach! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a really basic question, but I&#8217;m betting it&#8217;s something that many librarians wonder about.  We&#8217;re all for making noise (as a profession we do that rather well for something we care about, despite stereotypes of being shushers).  I&#8217;m more at a loss of who to talk to at publishers.  I&#8217;ve TOLD publishers at the shows, and after the shows, and I&#8217;m frequently brushed off.  How do I know who to speak to?  How does any librarian know who to speak to at an individual publisher?</p>
<p>The only list I know if is over at Early Word: <a href="http://www.earlyword.com/publishers/" rel="nofollow">http://www.earlyword.com/publishers/</a></p>
<p>Karen, I totally feel your pain &#8212; I run into much the same problem.  So, clearly we need a group of librarians to storm OCLC and fix all of the cataloging from years past!  Once more unto the breach! :)</p>
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		<title>By: Karen</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/07/08/it-was-long-overdue/#comment-49996</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 21:59:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/?p=14259#comment-49996</guid>
		<description>Robin, you asked about a &quot;graphic novels&quot; subject heading from LC.

The short answer is &quot;yes and no.&quot;  (Helpful, right?)

LC added a Genre/Form term of &quot;Graphic novels&quot; that catalogers can choose to add to a record.  If you look at OCLC records in WorldCat, for example, you&#039;ll see that it&#039;s listed separately from the rest of the LCSH (which OCLC calls &quot;Descriptors&quot;).  You can search on Genre/Form terms just like subject headings but they aren&#039;t, technically, subject headings, because they aren&#039;t indicating a topic but a medium.

Again, how aggressive or comprehensive an individual cataloger is will play a factor.

If you search in OCLC for the Genre/Form heading of &quot;Graphic novels,&quot; there are over 58,000 results.

If you search in OCLC for the LCSH of &quot;Comic books, strips, etc.&quot; you get over 147,000 results.

If you go for the Venn Diagram of how many use both terms in a single record, you get over 45,000 results--13,000 fewer than the Genre/Form usage, which means that, as I noted, some catalogers are just slapping a Genre/Form heading on there without including what has been used traditionally.

If you do a Boolean search for &quot;Graphic novels&quot; NOT &quot;Comic books, strips, etc.&quot; in order to see those 13,000 records, you find something like this record for &quot;American Born Chinese&quot;:

Descriptor:  	Graphic novels. 
  Chinese Americans -- Fiction. 
  Identity -- Fiction. 
  Schools -- Fiction. 
  Cartoons and comics. 
Genre/Form: 	Graphic novels. 
  Graphic novels -- United states. 

That&#039;s just...just a nightmare.  Someone has used Graphic novels both as Genre/Form AND as LCSH.  And now there&#039;s an LCSH I&#039;ve never even seen before: &quot;Cartoons and comics.&quot;

What this means is that there is even less of a possibility of anyone being able to go to an online catalog and pull up the entire collection at one go, in order to browse it online.

It&#039;s really unfortunate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robin, you asked about a &#8220;graphic novels&#8221; subject heading from LC.</p>
<p>The short answer is &#8220;yes and no.&#8221;  (Helpful, right?)</p>
<p>LC added a Genre/Form term of &#8220;Graphic novels&#8221; that catalogers can choose to add to a record.  If you look at OCLC records in WorldCat, for example, you&#8217;ll see that it&#8217;s listed separately from the rest of the LCSH (which OCLC calls &#8220;Descriptors&#8221;).  You can search on Genre/Form terms just like subject headings but they aren&#8217;t, technically, subject headings, because they aren&#8217;t indicating a topic but a medium.</p>
<p>Again, how aggressive or comprehensive an individual cataloger is will play a factor.</p>
<p>If you search in OCLC for the Genre/Form heading of &#8220;Graphic novels,&#8221; there are over 58,000 results.</p>
<p>If you search in OCLC for the LCSH of &#8220;Comic books, strips, etc.&#8221; you get over 147,000 results.</p>
<p>If you go for the Venn Diagram of how many use both terms in a single record, you get over 45,000 results&#8211;13,000 fewer than the Genre/Form usage, which means that, as I noted, some catalogers are just slapping a Genre/Form heading on there without including what has been used traditionally.</p>
<p>If you do a Boolean search for &#8220;Graphic novels&#8221; NOT &#8220;Comic books, strips, etc.&#8221; in order to see those 13,000 records, you find something like this record for &#8220;American Born Chinese&#8221;:</p>
<p>Descriptor:  	Graphic novels.<br />
  Chinese Americans &#8212; Fiction.<br />
  Identity &#8212; Fiction.<br />
  Schools &#8212; Fiction.<br />
  Cartoons and comics.<br />
Genre/Form: 	Graphic novels.<br />
  Graphic novels &#8212; United states. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s just&#8230;just a nightmare.  Someone has used Graphic novels both as Genre/Form AND as LCSH.  And now there&#8217;s an LCSH I&#8217;ve never even seen before: &#8220;Cartoons and comics.&#8221;</p>
<p>What this means is that there is even less of a possibility of anyone being able to go to an online catalog and pull up the entire collection at one go, in order to browse it online.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s really unfortunate.</p>
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		<title>By: David Serchay</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/07/08/it-was-long-overdue/#comment-49990</link>
		<dc:creator>David Serchay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 21:20:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/?p=14259#comment-49990</guid>
		<description>In my library system a portion of the juvenile/young adult budget has been specifically designated for graphic novels for a few years now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my library system a portion of the juvenile/young adult budget has been specifically designated for graphic novels for a few years now.</p>
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		<title>By: John Shableski</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/07/08/it-was-long-overdue/#comment-49975</link>
		<dc:creator>John Shableski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 20:09:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/?p=14259#comment-49975</guid>
		<description>Excellent posting Rich.  The commentary has been quite excellent.  

With the publisher participation at ALA, we need the librarians to basically &quot;storm the castles&quot; and demand better representation from the houses.  Raina Telgemeier wouldn&#039;t have been in DC to promote Smile if I hadn&#039;t invited her.  Scholastic hadn&#039;t planned on bringing her to the show....seriously.   

This will take a campaign, by the librarians, that is a lot like the I WANT MY MTV campaign.   When MTV started running that promotional spot kids started hammering the phone lines of their local cable operators.  Look where we are now.

With the publishers who did exhibit in the gn pavilion, we(at Diamond) are working harder to educate them on what the environment will provide them.  The library shows are more of a two-way conversation than any other show.  Publishers learn just as much about the market as the librarians will about the new books-IF they are ready to listen.   

So, why didn&#039;t we see more graphic novels in the booths of the major houses?  Their marketing teams just don&#039;t have a clue as to what the graphic novel format delivers.  They have great books or they are distributing for houses like DC, Viz etc and they just don&#039;t see the total numbers on the growth of the format.   Probably because they keep looking for a &quot;Harry Potter&quot;.  If they studied the growth of the market, they would see that the entire category is Harry Potter.  

And though we are seeing a lot more great titles coming for older teens and adults the gold rush will be found in the tween category.  That day is fast approaching.

We just need more librarians, and now teachers, to demand greater publisher support for the graphic novels that are getting produced.

Email, or call the publishers and tell them I WANT MY GRAPHIC NOVELS!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent posting Rich.  The commentary has been quite excellent.  </p>
<p>With the publisher participation at ALA, we need the librarians to basically &#8220;storm the castles&#8221; and demand better representation from the houses.  Raina Telgemeier wouldn&#8217;t have been in DC to promote Smile if I hadn&#8217;t invited her.  Scholastic hadn&#8217;t planned on bringing her to the show&#8230;.seriously.   </p>
<p>This will take a campaign, by the librarians, that is a lot like the I WANT MY MTV campaign.   When MTV started running that promotional spot kids started hammering the phone lines of their local cable operators.  Look where we are now.</p>
<p>With the publishers who did exhibit in the gn pavilion, we(at Diamond) are working harder to educate them on what the environment will provide them.  The library shows are more of a two-way conversation than any other show.  Publishers learn just as much about the market as the librarians will about the new books-IF they are ready to listen.   </p>
<p>So, why didn&#8217;t we see more graphic novels in the booths of the major houses?  Their marketing teams just don&#8217;t have a clue as to what the graphic novel format delivers.  They have great books or they are distributing for houses like DC, Viz etc and they just don&#8217;t see the total numbers on the growth of the format.   Probably because they keep looking for a &#8220;Harry Potter&#8221;.  If they studied the growth of the market, they would see that the entire category is Harry Potter.  </p>
<p>And though we are seeing a lot more great titles coming for older teens and adults the gold rush will be found in the tween category.  That day is fast approaching.</p>
<p>We just need more librarians, and now teachers, to demand greater publisher support for the graphic novels that are getting produced.</p>
<p>Email, or call the publishers and tell them I WANT MY GRAPHIC NOVELS!</p>
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		<title>By: Synsidar</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/07/08/it-was-long-overdue/#comment-49957</link>
		<dc:creator>Synsidar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 17:21:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/?p=14259#comment-49957</guid>
		<description>Griepp reportedly said at C2E2 that graphic novel sales to libraries were flat, and blamed budget cuts.

A check of a couple of writers indicated that in North Dakota libraries, GNs are generally shelved with the prose books.

I wonder how libraries go about budgeting for the purchase of GNs. Ideally, GNs should be read by a cross-section of the library&#039;s patronage, or budgeting for them creates a &quot;GNs versus ____&quot; situation, which is undesirable. There&#039;s also the matter of reading skills. In the endless &quot;Should we buy what patrons want to read or buy what they should read?&quot; argument, I&#039;ve generally sided with the &quot;want to read&quot; advocates, because unread books are a waste of money, poor turnover stats will cause trouble, and reading &lt;strong&gt;something&lt;/strong&gt; will foster interest in books that might lead to more demanding material eventually. If GNs are so different from books that reading them doesn&#039;t improve reading skills or lead to greater interest in books generally, then there&#039;s a drawback to emphasizing them as reading material.

SRS</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Griepp reportedly said at C2E2 that graphic novel sales to libraries were flat, and blamed budget cuts.</p>
<p>A check of a couple of writers indicated that in North Dakota libraries, GNs are generally shelved with the prose books.</p>
<p>I wonder how libraries go about budgeting for the purchase of GNs. Ideally, GNs should be read by a cross-section of the library&#8217;s patronage, or budgeting for them creates a &#8220;GNs versus ____&#8221; situation, which is undesirable. There&#8217;s also the matter of reading skills. In the endless &#8220;Should we buy what patrons want to read or buy what they should read?&#8221; argument, I&#8217;ve generally sided with the &#8220;want to read&#8221; advocates, because unread books are a waste of money, poor turnover stats will cause trouble, and reading <strong>something</strong> will foster interest in books that might lead to more demanding material eventually. If GNs are so different from books that reading them doesn&#8217;t improve reading skills or lead to greater interest in books generally, then there&#8217;s a drawback to emphasizing them as reading material.</p>
<p>SRS</p>
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		<title>By: Rich Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/07/08/it-was-long-overdue/#comment-49945</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 16:23:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/?p=14259#comment-49945</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s difficult to get a complete picture of how big the library market is because librarians buy from so many sources; wholesalers, retailers, online, etc. Publishers can get reports from wholesalers that will tell them how many of their books were sold to libraries. When the wholesaler is purely one for the library market - like Brodart or Follett, it&#039;s pretty simple to see a sales report. I am not sure if Diamiond specifically tracks library sales, but I know that many librarians even buy from their local comic book shop. 

So much like Bookscan I would assume that even if you take the time to add all these up it would represent about 70% of the market for libraries. I don&#039;t know how ICv2 got their number - but I am going to assume that it&#039;s bigger than they have estimated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s difficult to get a complete picture of how big the library market is because librarians buy from so many sources; wholesalers, retailers, online, etc. Publishers can get reports from wholesalers that will tell them how many of their books were sold to libraries. When the wholesaler is purely one for the library market &#8211; like Brodart or Follett, it&#8217;s pretty simple to see a sales report. I am not sure if Diamiond specifically tracks library sales, but I know that many librarians even buy from their local comic book shop. </p>
<p>So much like Bookscan I would assume that even if you take the time to add all these up it would represent about 70% of the market for libraries. I don&#8217;t know how ICv2 got their number &#8211; but I am going to assume that it&#8217;s bigger than they have estimated.</p>
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		<title>By: Torsten Adair</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/07/08/it-was-long-overdue/#comment-49938</link>
		<dc:creator>Torsten Adair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 15:51:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/?p=14259#comment-49938</guid>
		<description>If one goes to authorities DOT loc DOT gov , one can search by subject headings.

Graphic novels:
http://authorities.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?AuthRecID=4863735&amp;v1=1&amp;HC=1&amp;SEQ=20100709104939&amp;PID=LsqjlhCWjfTVy8WXSqJizVmD9t2

LoC has some 2860 titles under GN and 2006 under &quot;Comic books, strips, etc.&quot;  This does not include subdivisions such as &quot;Librarians--Comic books, strips, etc.&quot;

Yeah...  we librarians love to dissect cataloging... Is Neil Gaiman a British or an American author?

The ICV2 white paper at C2E2 did not break out library purchasing.  How does one track that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If one goes to authorities DOT loc DOT gov , one can search by subject headings.</p>
<p>Graphic novels:<br />
<a href="http://authorities.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?AuthRecID=4863735&amp;v1=1&amp;HC=1&amp;SEQ=20100709104939&amp;PID=LsqjlhCWjfTVy8WXSqJizVmD9t2" rel="nofollow">http://authorities.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?AuthRecID=4863735&amp;v1=1&amp;HC=1&amp;SEQ=20100709104939&amp;PID=LsqjlhCWjfTVy8WXSqJizVmD9t2</a></p>
<p>LoC has some 2860 titles under GN and 2006 under &#8220;Comic books, strips, etc.&#8221;  This does not include subdivisions such as &#8220;Librarians&#8211;Comic books, strips, etc.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yeah&#8230;  we librarians love to dissect cataloging&#8230; Is Neil Gaiman a British or an American author?</p>
<p>The ICV2 white paper at C2E2 did not break out library purchasing.  How does one track that?</p>
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		<title>By: Rich Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/07/08/it-was-long-overdue/#comment-49928</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 14:35:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/?p=14259#comment-49928</guid>
		<description>Robin
To your point:
“To bring it back to the main point, I do have a question — how do we, as librarians, put pressure on the publishers to represent better at shows? How do we let them know one, the money they could make, and two, the necessity for their presence? Can we do anything individually?”
First I believe they are already making money on the library market – and the publishers need to be reminded. It seems that the publishers who are still there either are new – like Boom and see the potential of non-returnable sales into the library market or a few like Dark Horse and IDW who have been exhibiting for some time are invested in supporting the market because I believe someone there is paying attention to it. 
I am not sure what type of communication there is between you guys and the big, absent publishers. Comic shop and big box retailers are loud and they are persistent in voicing their needs to the publishers. How vocal are librarians and if you are – how do the publishers respond? If librarians believe that they are being ignored by these publishers they need to be more visible and more vocal. And I think I know how those librarians are.
According to ICv2 in 2008 the library market represented 35 million dollars in sales – up from 30 million in 2007. I don’t have the figures for 2009, but that is a significant amount of money. Maybe someone should remind these publishers of that and that they are all non-returnable. Or maybe someone should shame them that at the recent ALA there was a huge crowd for most authors and artists who were signing. Hell, there was a huge crowd for on publisher who gave away free cake and champagne.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robin<br />
To your point:<br />
“To bring it back to the main point, I do have a question — how do we, as librarians, put pressure on the publishers to represent better at shows? How do we let them know one, the money they could make, and two, the necessity for their presence? Can we do anything individually?”<br />
First I believe they are already making money on the library market – and the publishers need to be reminded. It seems that the publishers who are still there either are new – like Boom and see the potential of non-returnable sales into the library market or a few like Dark Horse and IDW who have been exhibiting for some time are invested in supporting the market because I believe someone there is paying attention to it.<br />
I am not sure what type of communication there is between you guys and the big, absent publishers. Comic shop and big box retailers are loud and they are persistent in voicing their needs to the publishers. How vocal are librarians and if you are – how do the publishers respond? If librarians believe that they are being ignored by these publishers they need to be more visible and more vocal. And I think I know how those librarians are.<br />
According to ICv2 in 2008 the library market represented 35 million dollars in sales – up from 30 million in 2007. I don’t have the figures for 2009, but that is a significant amount of money. Maybe someone should remind these publishers of that and that they are all non-returnable. Or maybe someone should shame them that at the recent ALA there was a huge crowd for most authors and artists who were signing. Hell, there was a huge crowd for on publisher who gave away free cake and champagne.</p>
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		<title>By: Robin B</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/07/08/it-was-long-overdue/#comment-49924</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 13:34:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/?p=14259#comment-49924</guid>
		<description>One more thing: Mark, I do see libraries that shelve their nonfiction videos with their nonfiction books.  Again, it makes browsing for a subject easier.  I&#039;ve yet to see people do that with fiction, and honestly, that&#039;s what people are doing by interfiling graphic novels with prose novels.  It may well work in some libraries, but in most I haven&#039;t heard of that much success.

I feel almost like we should apologize to Rich for letting the comments sidetrack into a cataloging discussion -- oh, librarians!  It&#039;s so easy for us to do.

To bring it back to the main point, I do have a question -- how do we, as librarians, put pressure on the publishers to represent better at shows?  How do we let them know one, the money they could make, and two, the necessity for their presence?  Can we do anything individually?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One more thing: Mark, I do see libraries that shelve their nonfiction videos with their nonfiction books.  Again, it makes browsing for a subject easier.  I&#8217;ve yet to see people do that with fiction, and honestly, that&#8217;s what people are doing by interfiling graphic novels with prose novels.  It may well work in some libraries, but in most I haven&#8217;t heard of that much success.</p>
<p>I feel almost like we should apologize to Rich for letting the comments sidetrack into a cataloging discussion &#8212; oh, librarians!  It&#8217;s so easy for us to do.</p>
<p>To bring it back to the main point, I do have a question &#8212; how do we, as librarians, put pressure on the publishers to represent better at shows?  How do we let them know one, the money they could make, and two, the necessity for their presence?  Can we do anything individually?</p>
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		<title>By: Robin B</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/07/08/it-was-long-overdue/#comment-49923</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jul 2010 13:30:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/?p=14259#comment-49923</guid>
		<description>Synsidar -- I think that last point is where we differ.  While I loved cataloging, and find its intricacies fascinating, I come down on the side of the readers being able to find the books.  Shouldn&#039;t that be the point of cataloging?  Not hiding them away in sections that make them hard to find?  I fear that&#039;s been my experience of interfiling graphic novels with fiction or nonfiction -- people just can&#039;t find them, and no one browses for them, so they just sit on the shelf, unnoticed and unread.  Mark also makes the obvious point -- it depends on your patrons and your own collection.

I do agree that whatever you decide about cataloging, it needs to be consistent, and I fear the bulk of MARC records for graphic novels are not that at all.  THAT&#039;S something I&#039;d love to see fixed.

I do see your point about having similar authors together -- to take a comics author example, you could easily have all of Greg Rucka&#039;s novels next to his comics work, or all of Neil Gaiman&#039;s comics next to his prose works.  In the future, when there is less prejudice against the format, we may well end up doing that.  But -- do you shelve all your videos and audiobooks with the authors prose works?  Because that&#039;s the same thing, to my mind.

Karen, does LC not have a graphic novels subject heading?  We do, and I&#039;ve noticed it finally being used more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Synsidar &#8212; I think that last point is where we differ.  While I loved cataloging, and find its intricacies fascinating, I come down on the side of the readers being able to find the books.  Shouldn&#8217;t that be the point of cataloging?  Not hiding them away in sections that make them hard to find?  I fear that&#8217;s been my experience of interfiling graphic novels with fiction or nonfiction &#8212; people just can&#8217;t find them, and no one browses for them, so they just sit on the shelf, unnoticed and unread.  Mark also makes the obvious point &#8212; it depends on your patrons and your own collection.</p>
<p>I do agree that whatever you decide about cataloging, it needs to be consistent, and I fear the bulk of MARC records for graphic novels are not that at all.  THAT&#8217;S something I&#8217;d love to see fixed.</p>
<p>I do see your point about having similar authors together &#8212; to take a comics author example, you could easily have all of Greg Rucka&#8217;s novels next to his comics work, or all of Neil Gaiman&#8217;s comics next to his prose works.  In the future, when there is less prejudice against the format, we may well end up doing that.  But &#8212; do you shelve all your videos and audiobooks with the authors prose works?  Because that&#8217;s the same thing, to my mind.</p>
<p>Karen, does LC not have a graphic novels subject heading?  We do, and I&#8217;ve noticed it finally being used more.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Sullivan</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/07/08/it-was-long-overdue/#comment-49866</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Sullivan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 22:47:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/?p=14259#comment-49866</guid>
		<description>Torsten: And… taking your idea to the crazy extreme, why not shelve CDs and DVDs with the books? The how-to DVDs should be next to the home improvement books, right? Philosophically, cataloging is simplified to: recording and storing a particular object so that it can be readily located for future use. A graphic novel could be shelved in 741.59, or in GN, or Local Interest. Librarians make those decisions based on the needs of the community. 

Charlotte Mecklenburg Library (where I worked until laid off last week) does shelve the nonfiction DVDs with the books, and I doubt they&#039;re the only ones.

They have the GNs in a special browsing section (Juvenile, Young Adult &amp; Adult in separate areas).  And the manga is shelved by title--at least in the branch where I was--just like a bookstore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Torsten: And… taking your idea to the crazy extreme, why not shelve CDs and DVDs with the books? The how-to DVDs should be next to the home improvement books, right? Philosophically, cataloging is simplified to: recording and storing a particular object so that it can be readily located for future use. A graphic novel could be shelved in 741.59, or in GN, or Local Interest. Librarians make those decisions based on the needs of the community. </p>
<p>Charlotte Mecklenburg Library (where I worked until laid off last week) does shelve the nonfiction DVDs with the books, and I doubt they&#8217;re the only ones.</p>
<p>They have the GNs in a special browsing section (Juvenile, Young Adult &amp; Adult in separate areas).  And the manga is shelved by title&#8211;at least in the branch where I was&#8211;just like a bookstore.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete Kilmer</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/07/08/it-was-long-overdue/#comment-49861</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete Kilmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 20:32:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/?p=14259#comment-49861</guid>
		<description>Thankfully we have a terrific person here in Indianapolis who is in charge of ordering product from my stores for the Indianapolis Public Library system. She pushed and pushed the board of directors to allow graphic novels into the libraries about 5 or 6 years ago and gave her a trial program. They were just knocked out by the circulation numbers and quickly expanded what they carry to all the Indianapolis Library locations. The orders for the graphic novels just went up and up. It&#039;s been great for us to really work with her.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thankfully we have a terrific person here in Indianapolis who is in charge of ordering product from my stores for the Indianapolis Public Library system. She pushed and pushed the board of directors to allow graphic novels into the libraries about 5 or 6 years ago and gave her a trial program. They were just knocked out by the circulation numbers and quickly expanded what they carry to all the Indianapolis Library locations. The orders for the graphic novels just went up and up. It&#8217;s been great for us to really work with her.</p>
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