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	<title>Comments on: Three for the letters: Twilight, Thoughts, Breath</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/19/three-for-the-letters-twilight-thoughts-breath/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/19/three-for-the-letters-twilight-thoughts-breath/</link>
	<description>The News Blog of Comics Culture</description>
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		<title>By: ugg boots</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/19/three-for-the-letters-twilight-thoughts-breath/#comment-112493</link>
		<dc:creator>ugg boots</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Sep 2011 06:36:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/19/three-for-the-letters-twilight-thoughts-breath/#comment-112493</guid>
		<description>I concur along with your put up. Nevertheless, do you may have any resources I can cite for my paper?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I concur along with your put up. Nevertheless, do you may have any resources I can cite for my paper?</p>
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		<title>By: Super Siblings - All ages comic strip for geeks with kids. &#187; Archive &#187; #webcomicschat - Balloon &#8220;Animals&#8221;</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/19/three-for-the-letters-twilight-thoughts-breath/#comment-28489</link>
		<dc:creator>Super Siblings - All ages comic strip for geeks with kids. &#187; Archive &#187; #webcomicschat - Balloon &#8220;Animals&#8221;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Apr 2010 04:10:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/19/three-for-the-letters-twilight-thoughts-breath/#comment-28489</guid>
		<description>[...] Other webcomickers draw their balloons in Photoshop using different sized and overlapped ellipses and then filling in the gap. @callouscomics provided this method for Photoshop Balloons. My thanks to the Heidi MacDonald for pointing out on http://comicsbeat.com the worst example of lettering and balloon styling I&#8217;ve seen a very long time in the new Twilight Graphic Novel. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Other webcomickers draw their balloons in Photoshop using different sized and overlapped ellipses and then filling in the gap. @callouscomics provided this method for Photoshop Balloons. My thanks to the Heidi MacDonald for pointing out on <a href="http://comicsbeat.com" rel="nofollow">http://comicsbeat.com</a> the worst example of lettering and balloon styling I&#8217;ve seen a very long time in the new Twilight Graphic Novel. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Twilight Graphic Novel selling quite well apparently, despite that lettering..&#160;&#124;&#160;The Forbidden Planet International Blog Log</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/19/three-for-the-letters-twilight-thoughts-breath/#comment-28414</link>
		<dc:creator>Twilight Graphic Novel selling quite well apparently, despite that lettering..&#160;&#124;&#160;The Forbidden Planet International Blog Log</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Mar 2010 14:46:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/19/three-for-the-letters-twilight-thoughts-breath/#comment-28414</guid>
		<description>[...] more than to say that the comic press is absolutely right, and point you in the direction of first Heidi and then Chris Sims&#8217; hugely entertaining take down of the graphic novel: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] more than to say that the comic press is absolutely right, and point you in the direction of first Heidi and then Chris Sims&#8217; hugely entertaining take down of the graphic novel: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Grossberg</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/19/three-for-the-letters-twilight-thoughts-breath/#comment-18824</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Grossberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Mar 2010 17:27:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/19/three-for-the-letters-twilight-thoughts-breath/#comment-18824</guid>
		<description>Maybe if they paid letterers a little more they&#039;d get better work? Nah.

Besides, it doesn&#039;t matter what the reader wants or what others think the lettering should be like.

As long as the client is happy with the final product the work is a success.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe if they paid letterers a little more they&#8217;d get better work? Nah.</p>
<p>Besides, it doesn&#8217;t matter what the reader wants or what others think the lettering should be like.</p>
<p>As long as the client is happy with the final product the work is a success.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Ziegler</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/19/three-for-the-letters-twilight-thoughts-breath/#comment-9231</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Ziegler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 18:59:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/19/three-for-the-letters-twilight-thoughts-breath/#comment-9231</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know, Blackeye.  I&#039;m finding the discussion quite interesting.  I haven&#039;t read Twilight, but I am a bit of a process nerd, and I don&#039;t think Torsten&#039;s questions are disrespectful, or even particularly out of line.  
Not that he needs me to defend him, of course.  Just saying that, even though the discussion might not be to your liking, others might be enjoying it...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know, Blackeye.  I&#8217;m finding the discussion quite interesting.  I haven&#8217;t read Twilight, but I am a bit of a process nerd, and I don&#8217;t think Torsten&#8217;s questions are disrespectful, or even particularly out of line.<br />
Not that he needs me to defend him, of course.  Just saying that, even though the discussion might not be to your liking, others might be enjoying it&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Simon Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/19/three-for-the-letters-twilight-thoughts-breath/#comment-9225</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 17:37:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/19/three-for-the-letters-twilight-thoughts-breath/#comment-9225</guid>
		<description>&gt;with lettering 95% digital these days, artists barely take balloons into account.

One of the most surprising things about manga is that, even now, most mangaka still use a manual cut-and-paste method for lettering.  They have a printer specially for making the text, which they cut and taped or rubber-glued onto the art board, which would then be scanned or photocopied to create the final manuscript for the publisher.  Seems like a pointless amount of extra work to me, but they have their reasons...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;with lettering 95% digital these days, artists barely take balloons into account.</p>
<p>One of the most surprising things about manga is that, even now, most mangaka still use a manual cut-and-paste method for lettering.  They have a printer specially for making the text, which they cut and taped or rubber-glued onto the art board, which would then be scanned or photocopied to create the final manuscript for the publisher.  Seems like a pointless amount of extra work to me, but they have their reasons&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Blackeye</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/19/three-for-the-letters-twilight-thoughts-breath/#comment-9217</link>
		<dc:creator>Blackeye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 16:22:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/19/three-for-the-letters-twilight-thoughts-breath/#comment-9217</guid>
		<description>Wow, Torsten, you are such a knowledgeable guy. Are you really that desparate for attention/recognition? What a windbag....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, Torsten, you are such a knowledgeable guy. Are you really that desparate for attention/recognition? What a windbag&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott McCloud &#124; Journal &#187; Archive &#187; That Hand on Your Shoulder</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/19/three-for-the-letters-twilight-thoughts-breath/#comment-9199</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott McCloud &#124; Journal &#187; Archive &#187; That Hand on Your Shoulder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 07:01:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/19/three-for-the-letters-twilight-thoughts-breath/#comment-9199</guid>
		<description>[...] Interesting article by Joe McCulloch at Comics Comics regarding the scarcity of old-fashioned thought balloons in todays genre comics and elsewhere (via The Beat). [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Interesting article by Joe McCulloch at Comics Comics regarding the scarcity of old-fashioned thought balloons in todays genre comics and elsewhere (via The Beat). [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Torsten Adair</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/19/three-for-the-letters-twilight-thoughts-breath/#comment-9158</link>
		<dc:creator>Torsten Adair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 22:10:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/19/three-for-the-letters-twilight-thoughts-breath/#comment-9158</guid>
		<description>The balloons could have been an afterthought.  
Wasn&#039;t this produced &quot;Marvel Method&quot;, with Stephenie Meyer having final say on the book?
It is possible that balloons were not finalized until Ms. Meyer&#039;s approval, and perhaps the production was rushed to meet deadlines.

The white space...  that was in reference to space between the balloon edge and the text block, the margins, so to speak.  If kerned professionally, text blocks are harmonious and not full of empty space.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The balloons could have been an afterthought.<br />
Wasn&#8217;t this produced &#8220;Marvel Method&#8221;, with Stephenie Meyer having final say on the book?<br />
It is possible that balloons were not finalized until Ms. Meyer&#8217;s approval, and perhaps the production was rushed to meet deadlines.</p>
<p>The white space&#8230;  that was in reference to space between the balloon edge and the text block, the margins, so to speak.  If kerned professionally, text blocks are harmonious and not full of empty space.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris A. Bolton</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/19/three-for-the-letters-twilight-thoughts-breath/#comment-9147</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris A. Bolton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 17:45:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/19/three-for-the-letters-twilight-thoughts-breath/#comment-9147</guid>
		<description>I love that McCullough piece! As a proud wielder of thought balloons for SMASH, it saddens me to think of it as a dying art form in comics.

I understand that, for more adult-oriented books, putting the thoughts in boxes is seen as &quot;cooler&quot; than projecting them onto a puffy cloud. Makes sense. But certainly for younger audiences, there&#039;s no finer way to get inside the character&#039;s head, and there are few comic elements more distinctive than the shapes of those balloons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love that McCullough piece! As a proud wielder of thought balloons for SMASH, it saddens me to think of it as a dying art form in comics.</p>
<p>I understand that, for more adult-oriented books, putting the thoughts in boxes is seen as &#8220;cooler&#8221; than projecting them onto a puffy cloud. Makes sense. But certainly for younger audiences, there&#8217;s no finer way to get inside the character&#8217;s head, and there are few comic elements more distinctive than the shapes of those balloons.</p>
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		<title>By: The Beat</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/19/three-for-the-letters-twilight-thoughts-breath/#comment-9145</link>
		<dc:creator>The Beat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 16:55:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/19/three-for-the-letters-twilight-thoughts-breath/#comment-9145</guid>
		<description>In my experience as a comics editor, and with lettering 95% digital these days, artists barely take balloons into account. Rare was the penciller I&#039;ve worked with who even roughed out vague balloon placements. It&#039;s the sign of an artist not a cartoonist. 

I hope they are teaching them better in school now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my experience as a comics editor, and with lettering 95% digital these days, artists barely take balloons into account. Rare was the penciller I&#8217;ve worked with who even roughed out vague balloon placements. It&#8217;s the sign of an artist not a cartoonist. </p>
<p>I hope they are teaching them better in school now.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/19/three-for-the-letters-twilight-thoughts-breath/#comment-9144</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 16:32:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/19/three-for-the-letters-twilight-thoughts-breath/#comment-9144</guid>
		<description>Mr. Adair--&gt;

&gt;Does manga use mechanical fonts, or “hand lettered” fonts?

In professionally released manga, yes, there is almost always only one universally used mechanical font (outside of sound effects, of course).  That&#039;s due to the use of kanji.  It&#039;s time-consuming to write by hand.

&gt;Were manga lettering conventions used correctly in this book?

I&#039;m not suggesting that the lettering was done correctly or incorrectly according to manga conventions, nor would I impose those conventions on it.  Just that, as someone used to reading manga, it doesn&#039;t look like it&#039;s wasting too much space.

However, the Times New Roman font itself looks weak and insubstantial as a dialogue font.  It lacks body, and doesn&#039;t &quot;fill in&quot; well.  That may further add to your impression that there is a lot of white space.

Mr. Martin--&gt;

&gt;The balloon should be treated as a compositional element.

That&#039;s one of the first things I observed about Twilight since the first preview images came out... it didn&#039;t look like consideration was given to the text until after the artwork was completed.  The professional artists on this board are infinitely more qualified than I to give you an answer, but in all the instances where I&#039;ve been privileged to witness work in progress, be it manga or comics, the balloons are an integral part of the process, included even at the thumbnailing stage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Adair&#8211;&gt;</p>
<p>&gt;Does manga use mechanical fonts, or “hand lettered” fonts?</p>
<p>In professionally released manga, yes, there is almost always only one universally used mechanical font (outside of sound effects, of course).  That&#8217;s due to the use of kanji.  It&#8217;s time-consuming to write by hand.</p>
<p>&gt;Were manga lettering conventions used correctly in this book?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not suggesting that the lettering was done correctly or incorrectly according to manga conventions, nor would I impose those conventions on it.  Just that, as someone used to reading manga, it doesn&#8217;t look like it&#8217;s wasting too much space.</p>
<p>However, the Times New Roman font itself looks weak and insubstantial as a dialogue font.  It lacks body, and doesn&#8217;t &#8220;fill in&#8221; well.  That may further add to your impression that there is a lot of white space.</p>
<p>Mr. Martin&#8211;&gt;</p>
<p>&gt;The balloon should be treated as a compositional element.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s one of the first things I observed about Twilight since the first preview images came out&#8230; it didn&#8217;t look like consideration was given to the text until after the artwork was completed.  The professional artists on this board are infinitely more qualified than I to give you an answer, but in all the instances where I&#8217;ve been privileged to witness work in progress, be it manga or comics, the balloons are an integral part of the process, included even at the thumbnailing stage.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Stanley Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/19/three-for-the-letters-twilight-thoughts-breath/#comment-9136</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Stanley Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 14:26:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/19/three-for-the-letters-twilight-thoughts-breath/#comment-9136</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t most cartoonists learn to design the panel with the lettering fields in mind? The balloon should be treated as a compositional element. The artist clearly didn&#039;t give it a second thought. And what&#039;s up with the transparency within the balloon? Shouldn&#039;t it be opaque?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t most cartoonists learn to design the panel with the lettering fields in mind? The balloon should be treated as a compositional element. The artist clearly didn&#8217;t give it a second thought. And what&#8217;s up with the transparency within the balloon? Shouldn&#8217;t it be opaque?</p>
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		<title>By: Torsten Adair</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/19/three-for-the-letters-twilight-thoughts-breath/#comment-9129</link>
		<dc:creator>Torsten Adair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 11:54:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/19/three-for-the-letters-twilight-thoughts-breath/#comment-9129</guid>
		<description>I have taken letterpress classes, and would consider handsetting the type.  Aside from EC Comics, very few publishers have used mechanical type, and very few have used it artistically.

Does the Twilight manga include production design notes?  Most publishers are adept at using various typefaces for text, and I am a bit surprised at Hachette&#039;s choice.  It&#039;s not as bad as the small-press, laser-printed, print-on-demand, vanity press paperbacks set in MS Word Times Roman.  As comics... yeah, it takes you out of the story, and that is a sin worthy of Torquemada.  I doubt there are many prima donnas in the Hachette design staff, and I&#039;m certain they are skilled professionals who&#039;s greatest success is doing a job which almost no one will notice.  However... did no one think to read Todd Klein&#039;s DC guide, or Comicraft&#039;s compact guide to comicbook lettering?  Or at least consult with the Yen staff or Chip Kidd or any of the Eisner nominees? 

Word balloons are tricky... they must be read as text, but at a larger size.  They generally act like headlines, thus requiring title faces, but must be reduced in size to achieve visual harmony with the artwork and the story.  Also, the text size must be larger for legibility, but not so large that it implies energy or emotion.

Does manga use mechanical fonts, or &quot;hand lettered&quot; fonts?  Do the readers notice or care?  Is it a concious decision by the studio or publisher?  Do certain genres or audiences demand certain typefaces?

Mr. Jones, thank you for the explanation.  Were manga lettering conventions used correctly in this book?  (I guess we should wait for the Japanese edition to compare.)

If Hachette owns the European rights, I suspect the word balloon placement will stay.  I also suspect that the larger balloons are a result of the &quot;Finnish surplus&quot;, which requires more space than other languages.  (Defined by Don Rosa.)  Even then, lettering can be manipulated to minimize that extra space.  (I bet you  never noticed it in a Rosa duck story, have you?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have taken letterpress classes, and would consider handsetting the type.  Aside from EC Comics, very few publishers have used mechanical type, and very few have used it artistically.</p>
<p>Does the Twilight manga include production design notes?  Most publishers are adept at using various typefaces for text, and I am a bit surprised at Hachette&#8217;s choice.  It&#8217;s not as bad as the small-press, laser-printed, print-on-demand, vanity press paperbacks set in MS Word Times Roman.  As comics&#8230; yeah, it takes you out of the story, and that is a sin worthy of Torquemada.  I doubt there are many prima donnas in the Hachette design staff, and I&#8217;m certain they are skilled professionals who&#8217;s greatest success is doing a job which almost no one will notice.  However&#8230; did no one think to read Todd Klein&#8217;s DC guide, or Comicraft&#8217;s compact guide to comicbook lettering?  Or at least consult with the Yen staff or Chip Kidd or any of the Eisner nominees? </p>
<p>Word balloons are tricky&#8230; they must be read as text, but at a larger size.  They generally act like headlines, thus requiring title faces, but must be reduced in size to achieve visual harmony with the artwork and the story.  Also, the text size must be larger for legibility, but not so large that it implies energy or emotion.</p>
<p>Does manga use mechanical fonts, or &#8220;hand lettered&#8221; fonts?  Do the readers notice or care?  Is it a concious decision by the studio or publisher?  Do certain genres or audiences demand certain typefaces?</p>
<p>Mr. Jones, thank you for the explanation.  Were manga lettering conventions used correctly in this book?  (I guess we should wait for the Japanese edition to compare.)</p>
<p>If Hachette owns the European rights, I suspect the word balloon placement will stay.  I also suspect that the larger balloons are a result of the &#8220;Finnish surplus&#8221;, which requires more space than other languages.  (Defined by Don Rosa.)  Even then, lettering can be manipulated to minimize that extra space.  (I bet you  never noticed it in a Rosa duck story, have you?)</p>
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		<title>By: Phil Hester</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/19/three-for-the-letters-twilight-thoughts-breath/#comment-9115</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Hester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 06:18:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/19/three-for-the-letters-twilight-thoughts-breath/#comment-9115</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s pretty hideous.



My 13-year-old daughter devoured it in one breathless sitting. No mention of lettering.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s pretty hideous.</p>
<p>My 13-year-old daughter devoured it in one breathless sitting. No mention of lettering.</p>
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