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	<title>Comments on: Kibbles &#8216;n&#8217; Bits &#8212; 3/11/10</title>
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	<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/11/kibbles-n-bits-3112010/</link>
	<description>The News Blog of Comics Culture</description>
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		<title>By: Synsidar</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/11/kibbles-n-bits-3112010/#comment-8530</link>
		<dc:creator>Synsidar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 20:37:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/?p=10093#comment-8530</guid>
		<description>A 2004 law journal article about &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.lctjournal.washington.edu/vol1/a002Groebner.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;online pricing errors&lt;/a&gt; has considerable info on Amazon.com and how the company protects itself from disastrous consequences due to pricing mistakes.
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;em&gt;As the first level of protection, Amazon.com and other online retailers have successfully employed protective terms and conditions which they invoke to avoid honoring pricing errors. Their websites include legal pages with disclaimers reserving the right to refuse to honor pricing errors. For example, Amazon.com’s site lists its pricing policy under its Conditions of Use. It states that despite Amazon.com’s best efforts, a small number of items may be mispriced and if an item&#039;s correct price is higher than their stated price, they will, at their discretion, either contact the purchaser for instructions before shipping or cancel their order with notification.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/em&gt;

The strategy is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=footer_cou/191-3273275-5113061?ie=UTF8&amp;nodeId=508088&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;still in effect&lt;/a&gt;:
&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;em&gt;With respect to items sold by Amazon, we cannot confirm the price of an item until you order; however, we do NOT charge your credit card until after your order has entered the shipping process. Despite our best efforts, a small number of the items in our catalog may be mispriced. If an item&#039;s correct price is higher than our stated price, we will, at our discretion, either contact you for instructions before shipping or cancel your order and notify you of such cancellation.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;/em&gt;

From the legal standpoint, Amazon.com probably wasn&#039;t obligated to fill any orders.

SRS</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A 2004 law journal article about <a href="http://www.lctjournal.washington.edu/vol1/a002Groebner.html" rel="nofollow">online pricing errors</a> has considerable info on Amazon.com and how the company protects itself from disastrous consequences due to pricing mistakes.</p>
<blockquote><p><em>As the first level of protection, Amazon.com and other online retailers have successfully employed protective terms and conditions which they invoke to avoid honoring pricing errors. Their websites include legal pages with disclaimers reserving the right to refuse to honor pricing errors. For example, Amazon.com’s site lists its pricing policy under its Conditions of Use. It states that despite Amazon.com’s best efforts, a small number of items may be mispriced and if an item&#8217;s correct price is higher than their stated price, they will, at their discretion, either contact the purchaser for instructions before shipping or cancel their order with notification.</em></p></blockquote>
<p>The strategy is <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=footer_cou/191-3273275-5113061?ie=UTF8&#038;nodeId=508088" rel="nofollow">still in effect</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p><em>With respect to items sold by Amazon, we cannot confirm the price of an item until you order; however, we do NOT charge your credit card until after your order has entered the shipping process. Despite our best efforts, a small number of the items in our catalog may be mispriced. If an item&#8217;s correct price is higher than our stated price, we will, at our discretion, either contact you for instructions before shipping or cancel your order and notify you of such cancellation.</em></p></blockquote>
<p>From the legal standpoint, Amazon.com probably wasn&#8217;t obligated to fill any orders.</p>
<p>SRS</p>
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		<title>By: The Beat</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/11/kibbles-n-bits-3112010/#comment-8527</link>
		<dc:creator>The Beat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 20:19:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/?p=10093#comment-8527</guid>
		<description>Brian and Jamie -- sorry if I mischaracterized the quote. I was just trying to paraphrase the overall impression of what Kieron said about other publishers not being a viable possibility for Phonogram. In case I didn&#039;t make it clear enough EVERYONE SHOULD READ THE WHOLE INTERVIEW.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian and Jamie &#8212; sorry if I mischaracterized the quote. I was just trying to paraphrase the overall impression of what Kieron said about other publishers not being a viable possibility for Phonogram. In case I didn&#8217;t make it clear enough EVERYONE SHOULD READ THE WHOLE INTERVIEW.</p>
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		<title>By: Jamie McKelvie</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/11/kibbles-n-bits-3112010/#comment-8518</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie McKelvie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 19:26:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/?p=10093#comment-8518</guid>
		<description>Brian is entirely right in his interpretation of Kieron&#039;s quote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian is entirely right in his interpretation of Kieron&#8217;s quote.</p>
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		<title>By: KET</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/11/kibbles-n-bits-3112010/#comment-8517</link>
		<dc:creator>KET</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 19:18:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/?p=10093#comment-8517</guid>
		<description>&quot;If you go into Wal-Mart first thing in the morning on Black Friday, somehow manage not to crush an employee to death against the doors of the store, and happen to be the 36th person to reach the sony flatscreens when there were only 35 of them in stock, you can’t blame walmart for that. You can’t demand they honor a specific price if there is no stock left.&quot;

Sure, you can. Department stores used to have things called &quot;rain checks&quot; for a reason, once upon a time. However, nowadays the bait and switch tactic with standard boilerplate over &quot;limited quantities&quot; has become the more prevailing method in screwing over customers who came in for the deals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If you go into Wal-Mart first thing in the morning on Black Friday, somehow manage not to crush an employee to death against the doors of the store, and happen to be the 36th person to reach the sony flatscreens when there were only 35 of them in stock, you can’t blame walmart for that. You can’t demand they honor a specific price if there is no stock left.&#8221;</p>
<p>Sure, you can. Department stores used to have things called &#8220;rain checks&#8221; for a reason, once upon a time. However, nowadays the bait and switch tactic with standard boilerplate over &#8220;limited quantities&#8221; has become the more prevailing method in screwing over customers who came in for the deals.</p>
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		<title>By: Marc-Oliver Frisch</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/11/kibbles-n-bits-3112010/#comment-8515</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc-Oliver Frisch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 19:01:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/?p=10093#comment-8515</guid>
		<description>Another thing to be considered, maybe, is the question whether PHONOGRAM would still be PHONOGRAM if it had been released by Vertigo. There has been some frustration in the past from creators whose vision for their own ideas ended up not being reconcilable with Vertigo editorial&#039;s.

I&#039;m saying that not because I don&#039;t want PHONOGRAM to be commercially viable or Gillen and McKelvie to earn a living doing the comic -- I do.

I&#039;m saying it because PHONOGRAM, as it stands, is one of the most visionary, ambitious and creatively successful comics of the last decade. Depending on how hands-on Vertigo would be and given the fact that Vertigo hasn&#039;t exactly had a great strike rate when it comes to such works lately, are we sure we would have WANTED this book to be published by Vertigo, considering whatever creative compromises might have been involved in getting there?

I know it&#039;s easy to say for me, given that I&#039;ve got no commercial stake in PHONOGRAM other than the $ 3.50 I gladly invested in each new issue. But I think it&#039;s worth considering.

(Oh, to dispel the impression that I&#039;m talking -- and linking -- to myself here, I should add that I&#039;m not the author of the &quot;Kibbles &#039;n&#039; Bits&quot; post.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another thing to be considered, maybe, is the question whether PHONOGRAM would still be PHONOGRAM if it had been released by Vertigo. There has been some frustration in the past from creators whose vision for their own ideas ended up not being reconcilable with Vertigo editorial&#8217;s.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m saying that not because I don&#8217;t want PHONOGRAM to be commercially viable or Gillen and McKelvie to earn a living doing the comic &#8212; I do.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m saying it because PHONOGRAM, as it stands, is one of the most visionary, ambitious and creatively successful comics of the last decade. Depending on how hands-on Vertigo would be and given the fact that Vertigo hasn&#8217;t exactly had a great strike rate when it comes to such works lately, are we sure we would have WANTED this book to be published by Vertigo, considering whatever creative compromises might have been involved in getting there?</p>
<p>I know it&#8217;s easy to say for me, given that I&#8217;ve got no commercial stake in PHONOGRAM other than the $ 3.50 I gladly invested in each new issue. But I think it&#8217;s worth considering.</p>
<p>(Oh, to dispel the impression that I&#8217;m talking &#8212; and linking &#8212; to myself here, I should add that I&#8217;m not the author of the &#8220;Kibbles &#8216;n&#8217; Bits&#8221; post.)</p>
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		<title>By: Scratchie</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/11/kibbles-n-bits-3112010/#comment-8514</link>
		<dc:creator>Scratchie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 18:45:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/?p=10093#comment-8514</guid>
		<description>Bill, I&#039;m not saying they should sell stock they don&#039;t have. I&#039;m saying that if they advertise a certain item for a certain price, and it&#039;s in stock, it&#039;s not unreasonable &quot;fan entitlement&quot; to expect them to honor that price. In many states, it&#039;s the law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill, I&#8217;m not saying they should sell stock they don&#8217;t have. I&#8217;m saying that if they advertise a certain item for a certain price, and it&#8217;s in stock, it&#8217;s not unreasonable &#8220;fan entitlement&#8221; to expect them to honor that price. In many states, it&#8217;s the law.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/11/kibbles-n-bits-3112010/#comment-8513</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 18:11:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/?p=10093#comment-8513</guid>
		<description>Scratchie,

While some states may share those laws be true, a big part of the issue is supply. Amazon first tried to assuage the situation by shipping 1 copy of the books, instead of the multiple issues many had ordered, but even at the reduced quantities, they still just plain ran out of books. There aren&#039;t 10,000 of these things sitting around at Amazon or at Diamond. That isn&#039;t how supply chain purchasing works.

If you go into Wal-Mart first thing in the morning on Black Friday, somehow manage not to crush an employee to death against the doors of the store, and happen to be the 36th person to reach the sony flatscreens when there were only 35 of them in stock, you can&#039;t blame walmart for that. You can&#039;t demand they honor a specific price if there is no stock left. Really the only thing you can do at that point is reign blows down upon #35.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scratchie,</p>
<p>While some states may share those laws be true, a big part of the issue is supply. Amazon first tried to assuage the situation by shipping 1 copy of the books, instead of the multiple issues many had ordered, but even at the reduced quantities, they still just plain ran out of books. There aren&#8217;t 10,000 of these things sitting around at Amazon or at Diamond. That isn&#8217;t how supply chain purchasing works.</p>
<p>If you go into Wal-Mart first thing in the morning on Black Friday, somehow manage not to crush an employee to death against the doors of the store, and happen to be the 36th person to reach the sony flatscreens when there were only 35 of them in stock, you can&#8217;t blame walmart for that. You can&#8217;t demand they honor a specific price if there is no stock left. Really the only thing you can do at that point is reign blows down upon #35.</p>
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		<title>By: tom</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/11/kibbles-n-bits-3112010/#comment-8510</link>
		<dc:creator>tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:14:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/?p=10093#comment-8510</guid>
		<description>&quot;As in, every time Jamie ran out of money, he had to stop and do something else. A couple of hundred dollars doesn’t cover rent or pay for his fashionable haircuts. And doing this bitty work f–ks up the production anyway, because you can’t concentrate or plan. You just spend your entire life in low-level money panic.&quot;

I know exactly how that feels.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;As in, every time Jamie ran out of money, he had to stop and do something else. A couple of hundred dollars doesn’t cover rent or pay for his fashionable haircuts. And doing this bitty work f–ks up the production anyway, because you can’t concentrate or plan. You just spend your entire life in low-level money panic.&#8221;</p>
<p>I know exactly how that feels.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Green</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/11/kibbles-n-bits-3112010/#comment-8509</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:06:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/?p=10093#comment-8509</guid>
		<description>To further what Brian Wood said, Vertigo also published &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.comicbookdb.com/issue.php?ID=141061&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Greatest Hits&lt;/a&gt;, which from what I know of it was sort of a &quot;Beatles as superhero&quot; riff that was very music-oriented and very British.

The failure of Phonogram to catch on is one of the most depressing things I&#039;ve heard about comics publishing in ages. As much as I love Image&#039;s creator-centric setup, I can&#039;t help but think another, more hipster-friendly publisher might have been better suited to getting this type of material in the hands of the right people. Then again, Comic Book Tattoo and Put the Book Back on the Shelf sold like gangbusters, so who knows what went wrong exactly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To further what Brian Wood said, Vertigo also published <a href="http://www.comicbookdb.com/issue.php?ID=141061" rel="nofollow">Greatest Hits</a>, which from what I know of it was sort of a &#8220;Beatles as superhero&#8221; riff that was very music-oriented and very British.</p>
<p>The failure of Phonogram to catch on is one of the most depressing things I&#8217;ve heard about comics publishing in ages. As much as I love Image&#8217;s creator-centric setup, I can&#8217;t help but think another, more hipster-friendly publisher might have been better suited to getting this type of material in the hands of the right people. Then again, Comic Book Tattoo and Put the Book Back on the Shelf sold like gangbusters, so who knows what went wrong exactly.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeet Heer</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/11/kibbles-n-bits-3112010/#comment-8508</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeet Heer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 17:05:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/?p=10093#comment-8508</guid>
		<description>Heidi! Please! Comics Comics is a family blog where we try and help kids of all ages appreciate the joys of picto-fiction and sequential art. That&#039;s why I avoided any references to &quot;drooping&quot;. Sometimes I think you have a sailor&#039;s tongue!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heidi! Please! Comics Comics is a family blog where we try and help kids of all ages appreciate the joys of picto-fiction and sequential art. That&#8217;s why I avoided any references to &#8220;drooping&#8221;. Sometimes I think you have a sailor&#8217;s tongue!</p>
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		<title>By: Sphinx Magoo</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/11/kibbles-n-bits-3112010/#comment-8507</link>
		<dc:creator>Sphinx Magoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 16:59:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/?p=10093#comment-8507</guid>
		<description>I think the Amazon kerfluffle shows that fans still want to buy books, just not at the prices they normally sell for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the Amazon kerfluffle shows that fans still want to buy books, just not at the prices they normally sell for.</p>
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		<title>By: Sandy</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/11/kibbles-n-bits-3112010/#comment-8505</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 16:09:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/?p=10093#comment-8505</guid>
		<description>I encourage everyone to spend their $25 Amazon checks by purchasing something from a charity wishlist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I encourage everyone to spend their $25 Amazon checks by purchasing something from a charity wishlist.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Boyd</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/11/kibbles-n-bits-3112010/#comment-8504</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Boyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 16:07:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/?p=10093#comment-8504</guid>
		<description>When the Amazon glitch happened, I assumed it was some weird one-day only super-sale, and I took advantage of it. That it was a mistake is regrettable, but the $25 gift certificate more than made up for it. I already used it to buy something else. Things like this happen; does anyone really feel gipped because it was a mistake and not a sale?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When the Amazon glitch happened, I assumed it was some weird one-day only super-sale, and I took advantage of it. That it was a mistake is regrettable, but the $25 gift certificate more than made up for it. I already used it to buy something else. Things like this happen; does anyone really feel gipped because it was a mistake and not a sale?</p>
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		<title>By: Scratchie</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/11/kibbles-n-bits-3112010/#comment-8503</link>
		<dc:creator>Scratchie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 16:07:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/?p=10093#comment-8503</guid>
		<description>I know that there&#039;s nothing some comics writers love more than ragging on comics fans for &quot;fan entitlement&quot;, but in fact, many states have consumer protection laws that if an item in a store has a wrong (lower) price marked, the store *must* honor that price. Why should Amazon be any different?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know that there&#8217;s nothing some comics writers love more than ragging on comics fans for &#8220;fan entitlement&#8221;, but in fact, many states have consumer protection laws that if an item in a store has a wrong (lower) price marked, the store *must* honor that price. Why should Amazon be any different?</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Wood</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/03/11/kibbles-n-bits-3112010/#comment-8502</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Wood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 16:06:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/?p=10093#comment-8502</guid>
		<description>&quot;Vertigo, Icon, and most creator participation companies just aren’t that interested in a quirky book that appeals to the indie music sensibility&quot;


I don&#039;t think that&#039;s what Kieron said at all... he cited Vertigo as probably not being possible due to legal issues with the book&#039;s use of actual songs.  I know for a fact that most of the editors at Vertigo love Phonogram.  How could they not?  It would be a perfect book for them otherwise.  (Young Liars may not have survived in the long run, but it was absolutely a quirky book with indie music appeal that Vertigo was happy to publish)

Kieron also said he hasn&#039;t seriously pursued other publishers, which kills me because I love this book to death.

brian w</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Vertigo, Icon, and most creator participation companies just aren’t that interested in a quirky book that appeals to the indie music sensibility&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s what Kieron said at all&#8230; he cited Vertigo as probably not being possible due to legal issues with the book&#8217;s use of actual songs.  I know for a fact that most of the editors at Vertigo love Phonogram.  How could they not?  It would be a perfect book for them otherwise.  (Young Liars may not have survived in the long run, but it was absolutely a quirky book with indie music appeal that Vertigo was happy to publish)</p>
<p>Kieron also said he hasn&#8217;t seriously pursued other publishers, which kills me because I love this book to death.</p>
<p>brian w</p>
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