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	<title>Comments on: More Watchmen &#8212; WWTF??!!??</title>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/02/03/alan-moore-watchmen/#comment-592</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 20:58:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/02/03/alan-moore-watchmen/#comment-592</guid>
		<description>Mike, i think that&#039;s a good observation. A progressive Superman is not the Superman that has been defined and established as being all about &quot;truth, justice and the American way&quot; for over a half century in the comics and movies. To redefine an already defined iconic character, is a disastrous move, and the movie proved that beyond question. The dingy costume...the &quot;truth, justice and all that stuff&quot; instead of saying &quot;truth, justice and the American way&quot;...and the creepy similarity between Routh and Reeve just ruined it. Plus, bringing back the tired plot of Lex Luthor and land, just added insult to injury. If Hollywood wants a winning Superman formula, they ought to look to the old &#039;50s Superman show with George Reeves. That&#039;s what Superman is all about. Not the progressive, toned down version that people don&#039;t relate to. Superman is as all-American as Coca-Cola, but Hollywood obviously didn&#039;t get the memo on that. They feel a need to tweak things and try to put their creative twist on a winning formula that shouldn&#039;t be twisted at all. Change is only good if the essence of the character is preserved. Maybe Hollywood has learned from their mistake, but i doubt it.

I didn&#039;t see the WATCHMEN movie, but ironically, i heard that it was too faithful to the comic book and lacked the necessary characterization, and that&#039;s what made it dull. Of course, the complexity of WATCHMEN is a polar opposite of the simplicity that is Superman. Superman is a proven formula for success, that&#039;s very much needed in this time of uncertainty when Americans are longing for the America they remember before Wal-Mart and president Obama came along. What an opportunity, but Hollywood seems clueless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike, i think that&#8217;s a good observation. A progressive Superman is not the Superman that has been defined and established as being all about &#8220;truth, justice and the American way&#8221; for over a half century in the comics and movies. To redefine an already defined iconic character, is a disastrous move, and the movie proved that beyond question. The dingy costume&#8230;the &#8220;truth, justice and all that stuff&#8221; instead of saying &#8220;truth, justice and the American way&#8221;&#8230;and the creepy similarity between Routh and Reeve just ruined it. Plus, bringing back the tired plot of Lex Luthor and land, just added insult to injury. If Hollywood wants a winning Superman formula, they ought to look to the old &#8217;50s Superman show with George Reeves. That&#8217;s what Superman is all about. Not the progressive, toned down version that people don&#8217;t relate to. Superman is as all-American as Coca-Cola, but Hollywood obviously didn&#8217;t get the memo on that. They feel a need to tweak things and try to put their creative twist on a winning formula that shouldn&#8217;t be twisted at all. Change is only good if the essence of the character is preserved. Maybe Hollywood has learned from their mistake, but i doubt it.</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t see the WATCHMEN movie, but ironically, i heard that it was too faithful to the comic book and lacked the necessary characterization, and that&#8217;s what made it dull. Of course, the complexity of WATCHMEN is a polar opposite of the simplicity that is Superman. Superman is a proven formula for success, that&#8217;s very much needed in this time of uncertainty when Americans are longing for the America they remember before Wal-Mart and president Obama came along. What an opportunity, but Hollywood seems clueless.</p>
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		<title>By: Saber Tooth Tiger Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/02/03/alan-moore-watchmen/#comment-440</link>
		<dc:creator>Saber Tooth Tiger Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 10:13:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/02/03/alan-moore-watchmen/#comment-440</guid>
		<description>Sean, there&#039;s no excitment because the industry is hostile to anything that would appeal to young boys. There&#039;s more interest in attracting female manga readers and women in general. I&#039;ve been told that it&#039;s an advantage to be a female artist than male at right now. I wasn&#039;t told why but I&#039;m guessing it&#039;s because there&#039;s some evidence that women read more than men. Getting back to the original subject, I hate to say it but Marvel and DC, like other businesses in other sectors , have lost signifcant ground to publishers in Asia. When Marvel, DC, other publishers make an attempt to attract  young boys and women they imitate manga which tells me they have lost all vitality. 

Yes, I know am I suggesting that America has lost all its vitality?  


I&#039;ll let the last Superman film answer that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sean, there&#8217;s no excitment because the industry is hostile to anything that would appeal to young boys. There&#8217;s more interest in attracting female manga readers and women in general. I&#8217;ve been told that it&#8217;s an advantage to be a female artist than male at right now. I wasn&#8217;t told why but I&#8217;m guessing it&#8217;s because there&#8217;s some evidence that women read more than men. Getting back to the original subject, I hate to say it but Marvel and DC, like other businesses in other sectors , have lost signifcant ground to publishers in Asia. When Marvel, DC, other publishers make an attempt to attract  young boys and women they imitate manga which tells me they have lost all vitality. </p>
<p>Yes, I know am I suggesting that America has lost all its vitality?  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ll let the last Superman film answer that.</p>
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		<title>By: &#8220;&#8230;Upon Your Mystery Ship&#8221; &#171; A Trout In The Milk</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/02/03/alan-moore-watchmen/#comment-313</link>
		<dc:creator>&#8220;&#8230;Upon Your Mystery Ship&#8221; &#171; A Trout In The Milk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 08:34:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/02/03/alan-moore-watchmen/#comment-313</guid>
		<description>[...] the hell&#8221;&#8230;and who knew this extremely late review would turn out to be at all topical?  Huh.  Well, it&#8217;s probably just that the DVD came out, so that&#8217;s what&#8217;s [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the hell&#8221;&#8230;and who knew this extremely late review would turn out to be at all topical?  Huh.  Well, it&#8217;s probably just that the DVD came out, so that&#8217;s what&#8217;s [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Gigi</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/02/03/alan-moore-watchmen/#comment-217</link>
		<dc:creator>Gigi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 14:12:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/02/03/alan-moore-watchmen/#comment-217</guid>
		<description>There is already Watchmen 2:
http://kevinbolk.deviantart.com/gallery/#Watchbabies</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is already Watchmen 2:<br />
<a href="http://kevinbolk.deviantart.com/gallery/#Watchbabies" rel="nofollow">http://kevinbolk.deviantart.com/gallery/#Watchbabies</a></p>
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		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/02/03/alan-moore-watchmen/#comment-209</link>
		<dc:creator>Max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 10:47:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/02/03/alan-moore-watchmen/#comment-209</guid>
		<description>Oh, and yeah, career suicide? man, i&#039;d be nervous as hell, but if they called me to do something like that i&#039;d freaking do a jig!

Got into comics because that and a few other books came out at the time i had to pick something to do for a living. Lot of us did.

I don&#039;t know many working people who would NOT jump at this, crap a brick too, but damn yes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and yeah, career suicide? man, i&#8217;d be nervous as hell, but if they called me to do something like that i&#8217;d freaking do a jig!</p>
<p>Got into comics because that and a few other books came out at the time i had to pick something to do for a living. Lot of us did.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know many working people who would NOT jump at this, crap a brick too, but damn yes.</p>
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		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/02/03/alan-moore-watchmen/#comment-207</link>
		<dc:creator>Max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 10:37:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/02/03/alan-moore-watchmen/#comment-207</guid>
		<description>huh, man, some of these comments, you&#039;d think it was the bible! 

That&#039;s about as pretentious as the idea this book would actually kill superhero comics the first time. From what I&#039;ve read in his interviews, Alan Moore has gotten over that idea long ago, i&#039;ll take his lead. 

It&#039;s going to come down to the right talent, and leaving them alone. That&#039;s the reverence it deserves, not being put in a box.

Also what&#039;s with the crap about it having to come out on time? I was one of the many kids who were put off the first time when the original series was delayed, many times, the last half took a while to get done. 

And man, we still freaking bought every one of them and love it today still. Whatever.

If they do this, the last thing they should do is give 2 F***in&#039; sh*t* about schedules. 

Take your time, 
take your time.

Those better be damn good scripts!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>huh, man, some of these comments, you&#8217;d think it was the bible! </p>
<p>That&#8217;s about as pretentious as the idea this book would actually kill superhero comics the first time. From what I&#8217;ve read in his interviews, Alan Moore has gotten over that idea long ago, i&#8217;ll take his lead. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s going to come down to the right talent, and leaving them alone. That&#8217;s the reverence it deserves, not being put in a box.</p>
<p>Also what&#8217;s with the crap about it having to come out on time? I was one of the many kids who were put off the first time when the original series was delayed, many times, the last half took a while to get done. </p>
<p>And man, we still freaking bought every one of them and love it today still. Whatever.</p>
<p>If they do this, the last thing they should do is give 2 F***in&#8217; sh*t* about schedules. </p>
<p>Take your time,<br />
take your time.</p>
<p>Those better be damn good scripts!</p>
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		<title>By: Sean</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/02/03/alan-moore-watchmen/#comment-203</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 08:17:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/02/03/alan-moore-watchmen/#comment-203</guid>
		<description>Everyone knows WATCHMEN and Dark Knight Returns have hurt the medium far more than helped in nearly a quarter century since their respective releases. This isn&#039;t the fault of Moore and Miller, though. They were just giving us their best stories in a Vertigo-esque way. The fault lies with DC and Marvel, who have driven the medium as a whole, down a path of excessively dark and increasingly mundane imitation. The very fact that there are so few noteworthy stories even beginning to approach that level of work, indicates that DC and Marvel have been about as creative and original as the music industry in recent years. A prime example is religion, which is a subject with lots of potential, that i would guess has not been gotten into much at all. Even if old ideas are recycled and repackaged, new comics lack vision and excitement that creators with imagination and passion can give if they are inspired and allowed to do so. Remember Walt Simonson&#039;s Thor? Never cared much for his art style, but he did have vision and brought an excitement to Thor. John Byrne also brought excitement to the Fantastic Four. That kind of excitement and fresh vibrance is not seen in comics anymore. I know there must be exceptions, but i don&#039;t notice them when i browse the new comics at my local comics shop. You know why comics are lacking that level of creative vibrance? Because today&#039;s comics are too serious and full of doom and gloom that stifles the excitement and diversity of stories that can be written. Can&#039;t have a happy story after so many sad ones have been written (remember Thunder Frog?). It just doesn&#039;t work. Too much killing and blood. Too many demons and darkness. Where is the true diversity of stories that would inject new life into a cesspool of seriousness? Where are happy stories amongst all the drama and darkness that continues to dominate the medium? DC and Marvel have gotten too serious and too one dimensional, and it&#039;s been reflected in the sales figures. True diversity of ideas in story and genre are necessary for comics to survive in the 21st century. The doom &#039;n gloom tone of comics needs to change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everyone knows WATCHMEN and Dark Knight Returns have hurt the medium far more than helped in nearly a quarter century since their respective releases. This isn&#8217;t the fault of Moore and Miller, though. They were just giving us their best stories in a Vertigo-esque way. The fault lies with DC and Marvel, who have driven the medium as a whole, down a path of excessively dark and increasingly mundane imitation. The very fact that there are so few noteworthy stories even beginning to approach that level of work, indicates that DC and Marvel have been about as creative and original as the music industry in recent years. A prime example is religion, which is a subject with lots of potential, that i would guess has not been gotten into much at all. Even if old ideas are recycled and repackaged, new comics lack vision and excitement that creators with imagination and passion can give if they are inspired and allowed to do so. Remember Walt Simonson&#8217;s Thor? Never cared much for his art style, but he did have vision and brought an excitement to Thor. John Byrne also brought excitement to the Fantastic Four. That kind of excitement and fresh vibrance is not seen in comics anymore. I know there must be exceptions, but i don&#8217;t notice them when i browse the new comics at my local comics shop. You know why comics are lacking that level of creative vibrance? Because today&#8217;s comics are too serious and full of doom and gloom that stifles the excitement and diversity of stories that can be written. Can&#8217;t have a happy story after so many sad ones have been written (remember Thunder Frog?). It just doesn&#8217;t work. Too much killing and blood. Too many demons and darkness. Where is the true diversity of stories that would inject new life into a cesspool of seriousness? Where are happy stories amongst all the drama and darkness that continues to dominate the medium? DC and Marvel have gotten too serious and too one dimensional, and it&#8217;s been reflected in the sales figures. True diversity of ideas in story and genre are necessary for comics to survive in the 21st century. The doom &#8216;n gloom tone of comics needs to change.</p>
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		<title>By: JeffF</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/02/03/alan-moore-watchmen/#comment-194</link>
		<dc:creator>JeffF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 02:27:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/02/03/alan-moore-watchmen/#comment-194</guid>
		<description>It just goes to show there is no originality anymore. But while Alan me palan will never do this, I say pull a Frank Miller. Take the money, sit back, relax, take your time, build the anticipation, get everyone&#039;s hopes up and wallets out, then put out a mirror to Dark Knight Strikes Again. If Miller could pull one over on DC and us, Moore could create the greatest comic &#039;con&#039; ever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It just goes to show there is no originality anymore. But while Alan me palan will never do this, I say pull a Frank Miller. Take the money, sit back, relax, take your time, build the anticipation, get everyone&#8217;s hopes up and wallets out, then put out a mirror to Dark Knight Strikes Again. If Miller could pull one over on DC and us, Moore could create the greatest comic &#8216;con&#8217; ever.</p>
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		<title>By: Boycott on DC</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/02/03/alan-moore-watchmen/#comment-193</link>
		<dc:creator>Boycott on DC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 02:14:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/02/03/alan-moore-watchmen/#comment-193</guid>
		<description>&quot;They Rob your Grave before you&#039;re dead!!!!&quot; 
Jim Carrey on Jonathan Ross BBC, when asked about Dumb and Dumberer: When Harry Met Lloyd</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;They Rob your Grave before you&#8217;re dead!!!!&#8221;<br />
Jim Carrey on Jonathan Ross BBC, when asked about Dumb and Dumberer: When Harry Met Lloyd</p>
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		<title>By: Cary Coatney</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/02/03/alan-moore-watchmen/#comment-192</link>
		<dc:creator>Cary Coatney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 01:40:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/02/03/alan-moore-watchmen/#comment-192</guid>
		<description>As long as it keeps DiDio&#039;s mind off T.H.U.N.D.E.R Agents, I&#039;m ok with it!

~

Coat</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As long as it keeps DiDio&#8217;s mind off T.H.U.N.D.E.R Agents, I&#8217;m ok with it!</p>
<p>~</p>
<p>Coat</p>
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		<title>By: Cormorant</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/02/03/alan-moore-watchmen/#comment-180</link>
		<dc:creator>Cormorant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 23:08:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/02/03/alan-moore-watchmen/#comment-180</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s hard to imagine this coming out anything other than a failure, but I can&#039;t work up a lot of indignation given how Moore&#039;s plundered so many pre-existing stories to build his own career.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s hard to imagine this coming out anything other than a failure, but I can&#8217;t work up a lot of indignation given how Moore&#8217;s plundered so many pre-existing stories to build his own career.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Boyd</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/02/03/alan-moore-watchmen/#comment-173</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Boyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 21:37:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/02/03/alan-moore-watchmen/#comment-173</guid>
		<description>Torsten wrote:

&quot;Were I a comics professional, I would avoid this.
&quot;1) If it fails, it’s a permanent Mark of Cain, a dead albatross, on your resume.&quot;

Really? I think many comic book creators have things in their resumes that aren&#039;t that great and that they are less than proud of. Comics seems quite forgiving of creators&#039; past fiascos.

&quot;2) How can this succeed? How can you match the success of DC’s best selling graphic novel? Has a “classic” prose novel sequel ever matched the success of the original material? Especially “commissioned” sequels written by different authors?&quot;

Very few sequels/spin-offs in any medium match the success of the original. That&#039;s OK--all they have to do is make a profit and the publisher will be happy. If they can make a profit on a  spin-off project, that will mean that they will have leveraged a bit more return on an intellectual asset than they would have otherwise.

&quot;3) Would the people involved be considered pariahs by other comics professionals?&quot;

I don&#039;t know--but I think most people in comics are cognizant of the need for their colleagues to have paying work. They might feel sorry for the guy who has to write &quot;Watchmen Year 1&quot; or whatever, but not disgust. At least, I would.

&quot;4) If DC wanted to capitalize on a cool Alan Moore Watchman-like story, why not develop “Twilight of the Superheroes”?&quot;

Because they probably feel they can leverage more value out of the Watchmen property.

&quot;5) Why not take Moore’s model (archetypal super heroes in the real world) and create a “Watchmen-like” work? Just as the Charlton heroes were left unscathed by Moore, so could the Watchmen characters be left unscathed by DiDio. If it works, DC gets another property to merchandise. If it doesn’t work, you banish it to World #53, to be re-developed twenty years later by some hot writer.&quot;

This is a business decision. So let&#039;s look at if MBA-style. Let&#039;s say DC is cash-constrained. They can only do one project in addition to the ones they are already committed to. So it will either be a Watchmen spin-off or &quot;archetypal superheroes in the real world&quot; (ASRW for short). The two projects cost exactly the same to produce. Which do you produce? (Remember, you are a beancounter--not an editor or a fan.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Torsten wrote:</p>
<p>&#8220;Were I a comics professional, I would avoid this.<br />
&#8220;1) If it fails, it’s a permanent Mark of Cain, a dead albatross, on your resume.&#8221;</p>
<p>Really? I think many comic book creators have things in their resumes that aren&#8217;t that great and that they are less than proud of. Comics seems quite forgiving of creators&#8217; past fiascos.</p>
<p>&#8220;2) How can this succeed? How can you match the success of DC’s best selling graphic novel? Has a “classic” prose novel sequel ever matched the success of the original material? Especially “commissioned” sequels written by different authors?&#8221;</p>
<p>Very few sequels/spin-offs in any medium match the success of the original. That&#8217;s OK&#8211;all they have to do is make a profit and the publisher will be happy. If they can make a profit on a  spin-off project, that will mean that they will have leveraged a bit more return on an intellectual asset than they would have otherwise.</p>
<p>&#8220;3) Would the people involved be considered pariahs by other comics professionals?&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know&#8211;but I think most people in comics are cognizant of the need for their colleagues to have paying work. They might feel sorry for the guy who has to write &#8220;Watchmen Year 1&#8243; or whatever, but not disgust. At least, I would.</p>
<p>&#8220;4) If DC wanted to capitalize on a cool Alan Moore Watchman-like story, why not develop “Twilight of the Superheroes”?&#8221;</p>
<p>Because they probably feel they can leverage more value out of the Watchmen property.</p>
<p>&#8220;5) Why not take Moore’s model (archetypal super heroes in the real world) and create a “Watchmen-like” work? Just as the Charlton heroes were left unscathed by Moore, so could the Watchmen characters be left unscathed by DiDio. If it works, DC gets another property to merchandise. If it doesn’t work, you banish it to World #53, to be re-developed twenty years later by some hot writer.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is a business decision. So let&#8217;s look at if MBA-style. Let&#8217;s say DC is cash-constrained. They can only do one project in addition to the ones they are already committed to. So it will either be a Watchmen spin-off or &#8220;archetypal superheroes in the real world&#8221; (ASRW for short). The two projects cost exactly the same to produce. Which do you produce? (Remember, you are a beancounter&#8211;not an editor or a fan.)</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck Taine</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/02/03/alan-moore-watchmen/#comment-161</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck Taine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:46:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/02/03/alan-moore-watchmen/#comment-161</guid>
		<description>Dixon would be a good choice for books about the Comedian killing foreigners and for Rorschach getting creeped out by gay people!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dixon would be a good choice for books about the Comedian killing foreigners and for Rorschach getting creeped out by gay people!</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/02/03/alan-moore-watchmen/#comment-160</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 19:18:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/02/03/alan-moore-watchmen/#comment-160</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s only one writer who could possibly do this justice...that&#039;s right, Chuck Dixon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s only one writer who could possibly do this justice&#8230;that&#8217;s right, Chuck Dixon.</p>
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		<title>By: Naveen</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/02/03/alan-moore-watchmen/#comment-159</link>
		<dc:creator>Naveen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 18:59:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2010/02/03/alan-moore-watchmen/#comment-159</guid>
		<description>Why is any of this a surprise? This is how the entertainment industry works. (Sadly)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why is any of this a surprise? This is how the entertainment industry works. (Sadly)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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