Comments on: NYCC: No indies allowed? http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/22/nycc-no-indies-allowed/ The News Blog of Comics Culture Sat, 11 Feb 2012 13:49:13 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v= hourly 1 By: Scott Chantler http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/22/nycc-no-indies-allowed/#comment-37972 Scott Chantler Fri, 25 Apr 2008 19:26:09 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/22/nycc-no-indies-allowed/#comment-37972 Also, just wanted to add that going to NYCC and complaining that you can't (easily) find a copy of MOME is like going to SPX and complaining that you can't find SECRET INVASION #1. It's not so much the show's fault, as it is that you're just in the wrong damn place. Also, just wanted to add that going to NYCC and complaining that you can’t (easily) find a copy of MOME is like going to SPX and complaining that you can’t find SECRET INVASION #1.

It’s not so much the show’s fault, as it is that you’re just in the wrong damn place.

]]> By: Scott Chantler http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/22/nycc-no-indies-allowed/#comment-37971 Scott Chantler Fri, 25 Apr 2008 19:19:43 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/22/nycc-no-indies-allowed/#comment-37971 Okay, let me try again: That's some serious overarching description, there. All I'm saying is that Josh seems to have drawn the line between "indie" and "whatever else that apparently isn't indie" in a completely arbitrary place, then publicly complained that the NYCC didn't draw it in the same place he did. Don't get me wrong, I too often find the bigger, corporate-focused cons a bit embarassing, and WAY too focused on commercial comics. But the good stuff (however you define it) is usually there. It just takes some determined looking, as others have said. I wasn't at NYCC, but if my friends at Oni Press were there, I have to assume that there was a diverse range of material. Okay, let me try again:

That’s some serious overarching description, there.

All I’m saying is that Josh seems to have drawn the line between “indie” and “whatever else that apparently isn’t indie” in a completely arbitrary place, then publicly complained that the NYCC didn’t draw it in the same place he did.

Don’t get me wrong, I too often find the bigger, corporate-focused cons a bit embarassing, and WAY too focused on commercial comics. But the good stuff (however you define it) is usually there. It just takes some determined looking, as others have said. I wasn’t at NYCC, but if my friends at Oni Press were there, I have to assume that there was a diverse range of material.

]]> By: Chris Midweeker http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/22/nycc-no-indies-allowed/#comment-37970 Chris Midweeker Thu, 24 Apr 2008 20:57:50 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/22/nycc-no-indies-allowed/#comment-37970 I wouldn't say it's hair-splitting, it's a consequence of using overarching descriptions. Indie in this case, and in his original rant, meant art-book publishers rather than independant publishers. Nothing to do with snobbery (although I'm not denying that there's a fairly healthy dollop of snobbiness in many indie fanatics), just a different style of book. Boom are an indie company too, but they don't produce the sort of stuff Josh was looking for. Oni wouldn't publish the likes of House or Mome, 'cos it's not their market, just as FGB probably wouldn't publish Queen & Country or Northwest Passage, as it's not their market. It's the same in music, indie is used to describe a whole swathe of music that couldn't be further from independant if it tried... I wouldn’t say it’s hair-splitting, it’s a consequence of using overarching descriptions. Indie in this case, and in his original rant, meant art-book publishers rather than independant publishers. Nothing to do with snobbery (although I’m not denying that there’s a fairly healthy dollop of snobbiness in many indie fanatics), just a different style of book. Boom are an indie company too, but they don’t produce the sort of stuff Josh was looking for.
Oni wouldn’t publish the likes of House or Mome, ‘cos it’s not their market, just as FGB probably wouldn’t publish Queen & Country or Northwest Passage, as it’s not their market.

It’s the same in music, indie is used to describe a whole swathe of music that couldn’t be further from independant if it tried…

]]> By: Scott Chantler http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/22/nycc-no-indies-allowed/#comment-37969 Scott Chantler Thu, 24 Apr 2008 16:31:43 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/22/nycc-no-indies-allowed/#comment-37969 "He wasn’t saying Oni aren’t indie, just not indie in the same way as Fantagraphics, Top Shelf and D&Q are. They’re more of a mass-media company than art-book orientated, and there’s nothing wrong with that." That's some serious hair-splitting. In my day, "indie" meant independent, not some sort of value judgement based on how far a company does or doesn't have their nose in the air. “He wasn’t saying Oni aren’t indie, just not indie in the same way as Fantagraphics, Top Shelf and D&Q are. They’re more of a mass-media company than art-book orientated, and there’s nothing wrong with that.”

That’s some serious hair-splitting. In my day, “indie” meant independent, not some sort of value judgement based on how far a company does or doesn’t have their nose in the air.

]]> By: Chris Midweeker http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/22/nycc-no-indies-allowed/#comment-37968 Chris Midweeker Thu, 24 Apr 2008 14:57:13 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/22/nycc-no-indies-allowed/#comment-37968 This is a weird thread. Everyone seems to be attacking Josh for having an opinion. Josh didn't enjoy the con so much this year, couldn't find a lot of stuff and got annoyed by some of the other con-goers. These are facts, 'cos they're how he feels. It's perfectly okay for everyone to rave, but one negative con-report brings all this backlash? I love the internet. Michael - you really need to chill out a little. He wasn't attacking you for having liked the con, he just didn't like it himself. And since when has Jim Hanley's been corporate? It's always been one of the most indie friendly shops in NY. I've picked up loads of books there I've never seen anywhere else (and I used to work for Gosh! in the UK). Scott - He wasn't saying Oni aren't indie, just not indie in the same way as Fantagraphics, Top Shelf and D&Q are. They're more of a mass-media company than art-book orientated, and there's nothing wrong with that. This is a weird thread. Everyone seems to be attacking Josh for having an opinion. Josh didn’t enjoy the con so much this year, couldn’t find a lot of stuff and got annoyed by some of the other con-goers. These are facts, ‘cos they’re how he feels.
It’s perfectly okay for everyone to rave, but one negative con-report brings all this backlash? I love the internet.

Michael – you really need to chill out a little. He wasn’t attacking you for having liked the con, he just didn’t like it himself. And since when has Jim Hanley’s been corporate? It’s always been one of the most indie friendly shops in NY. I’ve picked up loads of books there I’ve never seen anywhere else (and I used to work for Gosh! in the UK).

Scott – He wasn’t saying Oni aren’t indie, just not indie in the same way as Fantagraphics, Top Shelf and D&Q are. They’re more of a mass-media company than art-book orientated, and there’s nothing wrong with that.

]]> By: Steve http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/22/nycc-no-indies-allowed/#comment-37967 Steve Wed, 23 Apr 2008 23:47:31 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/22/nycc-no-indies-allowed/#comment-37967 I find it weird that people who work for Publishers Weekly call First Second "Indy" or independent. yes, they publish alternative comics as one could say that vertigo does too. But in a pure economic, industry sense, they are owned lock stock and barrel by one of the world's largest book companies MacMillan, which therefore sets them apart from true independent companies in that the Javitts fees fall into a marketing budget that is probably separate from the budget for paychecks, where in a small company, it's all the same thing. Semantics I know, and of no interest to the fans, but it is one of the reasons why fans do not see more independent companies at these types of shows and something that industry journalists should not muddle. I find it weird that people who work for Publishers Weekly call First Second “Indy” or independent. yes, they publish alternative comics as one could say that vertigo does too. But in a pure economic, industry sense, they are owned lock stock and barrel by one of the world’s largest book companies MacMillan, which therefore sets them apart from true independent companies in that the Javitts fees fall into a marketing budget that is probably separate from the budget for paychecks, where in a small company, it’s all the same thing. Semantics I know, and of no interest to the fans, but it is one of the reasons why fans do not see more independent companies at these types of shows and something that industry journalists should not muddle.

]]> By: Kevin Huxford http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/22/nycc-no-indies-allowed/#comment-37966 Kevin Huxford Wed, 23 Apr 2008 20:29:59 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/22/nycc-no-indies-allowed/#comment-37966 I have to say that I agree with everyone refuting Josh's position on the indie presence. You had plenty of small press booths and artist alley tables that covered a ton of indies. I enjoyed hitting the 3rd annual indie after party, personally. I have to say that I agree with everyone refuting Josh’s position on the indie presence. You had plenty of small press booths and artist alley tables that covered a ton of indies. I enjoyed hitting the 3rd annual indie after party, personally.

]]> By: Jesse http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/22/nycc-no-indies-allowed/#comment-37965 Jesse Wed, 23 Apr 2008 18:10:07 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/22/nycc-no-indies-allowed/#comment-37965 Way to go Josh. You just lost a fan Way to go Josh. You just lost a fan

]]> By: ben dover http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/22/nycc-no-indies-allowed/#comment-37964 ben dover Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:51:23 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/22/nycc-no-indies-allowed/#comment-37964 "I hate to be a hater, BUT I THOUGHT THE NEW YORK COMIC-CON SUCKED!" - JN typical comic book fan reaction to something they didn't like (or understand) - "IT SUCKED!" that's like me going to APE or MOCCA and saying those SUCKED cause i couldn't find any superhero comics artists/companies there! then complaining about artists alley being filled with an abundance of pseudo-comic book artists who say they're artists but really have a full time office job selling insurance. that's like me going to BARNES & NOBLE and saying they SUCKED cause the comics section is only like one or two aisles in comparison to an entire store full of books and then also complaining about there being a starbucks attached to it cause i mean, what the heck does coffee have to do with books?!? and i got all 12 of 12 from that little picture quiz so i know my shit! “I hate to be a hater, BUT I THOUGHT THE NEW YORK COMIC-CON SUCKED!” – JN

typical comic book fan reaction to something they didn’t like (or understand) – “IT SUCKED!”

that’s like me going to APE or MOCCA and saying those SUCKED cause i couldn’t find any superhero comics artists/companies there! then complaining about artists alley being filled with an abundance of pseudo-comic book artists who say they’re artists but really have a full time office job selling insurance.

that’s like me going to BARNES & NOBLE and saying they SUCKED cause the comics section is only like one or two aisles in comparison to an entire store full of books and then also complaining about there being a starbucks attached to it cause i mean, what the heck does coffee have to do with books?!?

and i got all 12 of 12 from that little picture quiz so i know my shit!

]]> By: Calvin Reid http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/22/nycc-no-indies-allowed/#comment-37963 Calvin Reid Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:51:14 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/22/nycc-no-indies-allowed/#comment-37963 While understand where Josh is coming from I think its clear that, despite the obstacles to indie presses at NYCC--and there are plenty--I thought there was a pretty good presence. I can see from the other comments that others feel that way as well. I spent time at the Oni Press booth, the small korean publisher NetComics, First Second, ASP, Comics bakery and spent time in the revamped artists Alley and I guess Vertigo is kind of an honorary indie, cause they've sure got a lot of indie-identified artists. Not that the indie presence at NYCC should be taken for granted. While understand where Josh is coming from I think its clear that, despite the obstacles to indie presses at NYCC–and there are plenty–I thought there was a pretty good presence. I can see from the other comments that others feel that way as well. I spent time at the Oni Press booth, the small korean publisher NetComics, First Second, ASP, Comics bakery and spent time in the revamped artists Alley and I guess Vertigo is kind of an honorary indie, cause they’ve sure got a lot of indie-identified artists. Not that the indie presence at NYCC should be taken for granted.

]]> By: Scott Chantler http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/22/nycc-no-indies-allowed/#comment-37962 Scott Chantler Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:41:11 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/22/nycc-no-indies-allowed/#comment-37962 I'd get involved in this discussion, but I'm too busy trying to wrap my head around the fact that there's ANYONE who doesn't think of Oni Press as an indie publisher. Who knew that I was slaving under corporate control all those years? Certainly not me. I’d get involved in this discussion, but I’m too busy trying to wrap my head around the fact that there’s ANYONE who doesn’t think of Oni Press as an indie publisher.

Who knew that I was slaving under corporate control all those years? Certainly not me.

]]> By: Sal http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/22/nycc-no-indies-allowed/#comment-37961 Sal Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:28:50 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/22/nycc-no-indies-allowed/#comment-37961 I didn't attend NYCC this year, so i say the following with nothing to support it other than pure cynicisms with a touch of jerkiness. "God forbid! A comic book convention positioning itself to attract the majority of fans and pack the floor with people actually enjoying themselves with said con, instead of catering to an underwhelming minority of snobbish, self-righteous hipsters, that are too cool to show up anyway. The horror. The absolute horror." I didn’t attend NYCC this year, so i say the following with nothing to support it other than pure cynicisms with a touch of jerkiness.

“God forbid! A comic book convention positioning itself to attract the majority of fans and pack the floor with people actually enjoying themselves with said con, instead of catering to an underwhelming minority of snobbish, self-righteous hipsters, that are too cool to show up anyway. The horror. The absolute horror.”

]]> By: Rakarich http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/22/nycc-no-indies-allowed/#comment-37960 Rakarich Wed, 23 Apr 2008 10:57:47 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/22/nycc-no-indies-allowed/#comment-37960 I completely disagree with this article. I found a TON of Indies at NYCC. Here is my haul: • Johnny Hiro 1-3 (Bought them from Eisner Nominee Fred Chao himself) • The Aviary (Bought from Jamie Tanner himself) • Notes for a War by Gipi • Action Philosophers! tpb Vol 1,2,& 3 (Bought from Van Lente & Dunlavey) • A Dummy's Guide to Danger, first TPB (bought from Jason Burns) • A Dummy's Guide to Danger, first issue/second series (bought from Jason Burns) • KING! (bought it from Thomas Hall & Daniel Bradford) • PAPERCUTTER anthology (misc artists/writers) • Super Spy by Matt Kindt • Mr. Big from Little foot Publishing • Three Shadows from First second • American Born Chinese from First second ...and my favorite swag of the convention... • Meeting Eisner nominated Jeff Lemire and buying his book Lost Dogs from him as well as splurging and buying original cover art (fully painted) . If I could post the image on this blog you would know why it's a great buy. If you didn't see enough indy at the NYCC, I have to respectfully disagree. I just think you weren't looking hard enough. :) I completely disagree with this article. I found a TON of Indies at NYCC. Here is my haul:

• Johnny Hiro 1-3 (Bought them from Eisner Nominee Fred Chao himself)
• The Aviary (Bought from Jamie Tanner himself)
• Notes for a War by Gipi
• Action Philosophers! tpb Vol 1,2,& 3 (Bought from Van Lente & Dunlavey)
• A Dummy’s Guide to Danger, first TPB (bought from Jason Burns)
• A Dummy’s Guide to Danger, first issue/second series (bought from Jason Burns)
• KING! (bought it from Thomas Hall & Daniel Bradford)
• PAPERCUTTER anthology (misc artists/writers)
• Super Spy by Matt Kindt
• Mr. Big from Little foot Publishing
• Three Shadows from First second
• American Born Chinese from First second

…and my favorite swag of the convention…

• Meeting Eisner nominated Jeff Lemire and buying his book Lost Dogs from him as well as splurging and buying original cover art (fully painted) . If I could post the image on this blog you would know why it’s a great buy.

If you didn’t see enough indy at the NYCC, I have to respectfully disagree. I just think you weren’t looking hard enough. :)

]]> By: CBrown http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/22/nycc-no-indies-allowed/#comment-37959 CBrown Wed, 23 Apr 2008 04:36:58 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/22/nycc-no-indies-allowed/#comment-37959 "The fact that they had an artists alley at all was a little surprising, if the show continues to be successful, expect the autograph area and AA to disappear quickly (although maybe after the Jedi Training area)." It took me a second to realize that AA stood for Artist Alley. I was wondering how I'd missed the Alcoholics Anonymous table! “The fact that they had an artists alley at all was a little surprising, if the show continues to be successful, expect the autograph area and AA to disappear quickly (although maybe after the Jedi Training area).”

It took me a second to realize that AA stood for Artist Alley. I was wondering how I’d missed the Alcoholics Anonymous table!

]]> By: Joey Manley http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/22/nycc-no-indies-allowed/#comment-37958 Joey Manley Wed, 23 Apr 2008 01:48:01 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/22/nycc-no-indies-allowed/#comment-37958 Sounds like Josh got there right at the tipping point. I had a great time at the show Thursday, Friday, and Sunday -- but much of Saturday was just too crowded. There was a time, leaving McCloud's Zot! panel, when the people were packed so closely and so tightly coming and going, that I honestly did not feel safe. I had to get out of there. But, yeah. I spent the whole show talking to indie and alternative types -- both at their booths and otherwise -- and hardly even noticed the superhero stuff. I haven't been able to do that at many cons I've attended. But yeah. Saturday I had to get out of there. Sounds like Josh got there right at the tipping point. I had a great time at the show Thursday, Friday, and Sunday — but much of Saturday was just too crowded. There was a time, leaving McCloud’s Zot! panel, when the people were packed so closely and so tightly coming and going, that I honestly did not feel safe. I had to get out of there.

But, yeah. I spent the whole show talking to indie and alternative types — both at their booths and otherwise — and hardly even noticed the superhero stuff. I haven’t been able to do that at many cons I’ve attended.

But yeah. Saturday I had to get out of there.

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