Comments on: Dave Sim responds http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/09/dave-sim-responds/ The News Blog of Comics Culture Sat, 11 Feb 2012 13:49:13 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v= hourly 1 By: namae nanka http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/09/dave-sim-responds/#comment-80473 namae nanka Mon, 04 Jul 2011 00:06:05 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/09/dave-sim-responds/#comment-80473 "Other times, they take over entire societies which condone everything from female genital mutilation to “honor” killings to rape as the tool of ethnic cleansing to a woman being arrested for sitting next to an unrelated man in a Starbucks. " Female genital mutilation like foot-binding is/was practiced by women. The blame comes on men as to why they didn't stop it and by patriarchy theory corrupting women's brains. Even if we dispute that, the current high heels fad should be women's responsibility only. Your mention of honor killings like "stoning of women" sounds like something that you only ascribe society does to women. Look around, men get it too. Just like boys undergo genital mutilation. As for rape of women as ethnic cleansing, men get killed. Killed. Dead. So why is it that these are somehow depicted as female centric? Why? "We’re left wondering how anyone could think this passage refers to “North American Feminists”" How not? Male circumcision was rampant in their own dear country, and there have been cases of where boys got their penises horribly mutated or burnt off. What do feminists do? Cry about FGM in another culture. Hillary Clinton: "Women and children are the real victims of war." Girl empowerment is the theme for north american feminists' agenda when they look towards 3rd world countries who wouldn't look for their own boys empowerment back home. Family destroyers. They use the problems of 3rd world women as if they themselves suffer from it, while they are the most privileged human group ever in history. Their shoddy scholarship, (wage gap myth, then the (divorce = men rich, women poor) and the 1 in 4 women etc.) and their insane theories are carried over. All this with their meddling in other societies, while their own falls apart under their anti-male assault. (oh and there is celebrations too, Hanah Rosin's End of Men) There is an Islamic hadith which says that most people in hell are women. Why? Because they are ingrates. Nothing exemplifies this statement better than the blatant misandry in north amercian culture. I don't realize Sim's female emotional void, but I do get this: never respect a woman, respect the men who made her respectable. "But until we understand the sources of these feelings and social conventions, we cannot help, we cannot cure. We cannot progress." Women and men are not equal. Women have no concept of right and wrong. Much less equality. Feminism isn't some enlightenment after thousands of years, women in power/social influence is a standard narrative in many empires, usually during their decay. Some women rise above their sex's failings, and some men sink below, but just like you don't let a 16 year old drink even though he can easily drink a 24 year old petite woman under the table, you don't try to social engineer a society where the exceptions are held up as rules and women who hate men get to decide and deride what masculinity is. "Stupidity is a virtue in women", uttered after one such historical period of women's empowerment. http://www.josephrupp.com/history.html “Other times, they take over entire societies which condone everything from female genital mutilation to “honor” killings to rape as the tool of ethnic cleansing to a woman being arrested for sitting next to an unrelated man in a Starbucks. ”

Female genital mutilation like foot-binding is/was practiced by women. The blame comes on men as to why they didn’t stop it and by patriarchy theory corrupting women’s brains.
Even if we dispute that, the current high heels fad should be women’s responsibility only.

Your mention of honor killings like “stoning of women” sounds like something that you only ascribe society does to women. Look around, men get it too. Just like boys undergo genital mutilation.

As for rape of women as ethnic cleansing, men get killed.
Killed. Dead.

So why is it that these are somehow depicted as female centric?
Why?

“We’re left wondering how anyone could think this passage refers to “North American Feminists””

How not?

Male circumcision was rampant in their own dear country, and there have been cases of where boys got their penises horribly mutated or burnt off. What do feminists do? Cry about FGM in another culture.

Hillary Clinton: “Women and children are the real victims of war.”

Girl empowerment is the theme for north american feminists’ agenda when they look towards 3rd world countries who wouldn’t look for their own boys empowerment back home. Family destroyers.

They use the problems of 3rd world women as if they themselves suffer from it, while they are the most privileged human group ever in history.

Their shoddy scholarship, (wage gap myth, then the (divorce = men rich, women poor)
and the 1 in 4 women etc.) and their insane theories are carried over. All this with their meddling in other societies, while their own falls apart under their anti-male assault. (oh and there is celebrations too, Hanah Rosin’s End of Men)

There is an Islamic hadith which says that most people in hell are women. Why? Because they are ingrates. Nothing exemplifies this statement better than the blatant misandry in north amercian culture.
I don’t realize Sim’s female emotional void, but I do get this: never respect a woman, respect the men who made her respectable.

“But until we understand the sources of these feelings and social conventions, we cannot help, we cannot cure. We cannot progress.”

Women and men are not equal. Women have no concept of right and wrong. Much less equality.
Feminism isn’t some enlightenment after thousands of years, women in power/social influence is a standard narrative in many empires, usually during their decay.

Some women rise above their sex’s failings, and some men sink below, but just like you don’t let a 16 year old drink even though he can easily drink a 24 year old petite woman under the table, you don’t try to social engineer a society where the exceptions are held up as rules and women who hate men get to decide and deride what masculinity is.

“Stupidity is a virtue in women”, uttered after one such historical period of women’s empowerment.

http://www.josephrupp.com/history.html

]]> By: James Robert Smith http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/09/dave-sim-responds/#comment-37268 James Robert Smith Mon, 27 Apr 2009 23:17:05 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/09/dave-sim-responds/#comment-37268 Great Jove! Just when you think a comic book artist can't get any crazier. He should have married Gerhard when he had the chance. Great Jove!

Just when you think a comic book artist can’t get any crazier.

He should have married Gerhard when he had the chance.

]]> By: Peter Krause http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/09/dave-sim-responds/#comment-37267 Peter Krause Sat, 12 Apr 2008 02:14:23 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/09/dave-sim-responds/#comment-37267 Well, Gene---is it really one-percent? I fit very well into that mode. Great wife, excels at her job, makes more money than me. (And if she was male, she might be making even more!) And I guess you and I won't be able to agree on the zero-sum thing, as my previous statement made clear. If you hire talented people--whatever gender--there is no clear one-to-one ratio on available jobs. The ultimate "sum" is that we all benefit by casting as wide a net as possible. Well, Gene—is it really one-percent?

I fit very well into that mode. Great wife, excels at her job, makes more money than me.

(And if she was male, she might be making even more!)

And I guess you and I won’t be able to agree on the zero-sum thing, as my previous statement made clear. If you hire talented people–whatever gender–there is no clear one-to-one ratio on available jobs. The ultimate “sum” is that we all benefit by casting as wide a net as possible.

]]> By: gene phillips http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/09/dave-sim-responds/#comment-37266 gene phillips Thu, 10 Apr 2008 15:46:28 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/09/dave-sim-responds/#comment-37266 Peter, Sure, our hypothetical one-percenter could have a wife who works, brings in income (more than him, perhaps), and who excels at her job. But it's still a zero-sum game if Woman X gets the job he wants. There's any number of variables one can bring in, but the basic schema remains true. On at least one occasion, Sim has stated that he's not opposed to women entering the workplace (for your assignment, class, see Paglia's "No Law in the Arena" and write 100 words drawing comparisons), as long as they abide by the "hard knocks" of the workplace. I *assume* that he thinks most women can't take those hard knocks and that therefore they (and society) would be better off staying home. I wouldn't be surprised if he contradicts this stance somewhere else, though I give him props for trying to stay consistent within his own suppositions. Peter,
Sure, our hypothetical one-percenter could have a wife who works, brings in income (more than him, perhaps), and who excels at her job.

But it’s still a zero-sum game if Woman X gets the job he wants. There’s any number of variables one can bring in, but the basic schema remains true.

On at least one occasion, Sim has stated that he’s not opposed to women entering the workplace (for your assignment, class, see Paglia’s “No Law in the Arena” and write 100 words drawing comparisons), as long as they abide by the “hard knocks” of the workplace. I *assume* that he thinks most women can’t take those hard knocks and that therefore they (and society) would be better off staying home. I wouldn’t be surprised if he contradicts this stance somewhere else, though I give him props for trying to stay consistent within his own suppositions.

]]> By: BradyDale http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/09/dave-sim-responds/#comment-37265 BradyDale Thu, 10 Apr 2008 15:17:42 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/09/dave-sim-responds/#comment-37265 He rips on women all the time. What the hell is he even talking about? He's got no self-awareness left. Once again: I am a fan. I just read FLIGHT last week. I've just about read all the phone books up to the point where I started buying the floppies every month in the mid-90s. He rips on women all the time. What the hell is he even talking about? He’s got no self-awareness left.

Once again: I am a fan. I just read FLIGHT last week. I’ve just about read all the phone books up to the point where I started buying the floppies every month in the mid-90s.

]]> By: Unpopular http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/09/dave-sim-responds/#comment-37264 Unpopular Thu, 10 Apr 2008 08:58:32 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/09/dave-sim-responds/#comment-37264 Jack Fear, what I meant by right track was that he was still within realm of a reasonable argument. Then he called Heidi a misandrist, which she CLEARLY is not. It's at that point I decided not to give a damn about Dave Sim's views on certain subjects henceforth. He became hypocritical without much effort with just the first line of the last paragraph. That's pretty much all I was going for... and you should be pleased because I had previously been in the Dave-Sim-isn't-a-big-meanie camp. Jack Fear, what I meant by right track was that he was still within realm of a reasonable argument. Then he called Heidi a misandrist, which she CLEARLY is not. It’s at that point I decided not to give a damn about Dave Sim’s views on certain subjects henceforth. He became hypocritical without much effort with just the first line of the last paragraph. That’s pretty much all I was going for… and you should be pleased because I had previously been in the Dave-Sim-isn’t-a-big-meanie camp.

]]> By: Seth Hollander http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/09/dave-sim-responds/#comment-37263 Seth Hollander Thu, 10 Apr 2008 06:54:29 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/09/dave-sim-responds/#comment-37263 Well, Jack, men and women often are in an adversarial paradigm, IMO. I think any sharing situation revolves around a finite quantity, whether we're talking about resources, opportunities, land, whatever. There is always some limiting factor in the picture that means somebody can't have everything at the same time as someone else has everything. When I referred to "reduc(ing) the status of the dominant group", I meant realities such as this (the following example is from my life and cutely reverses the genders- it's actually the anti-libbers' nightmare!): Back in the 90s my girlfriend and I broke up. A year previous, she wanted to break up but I worked my way through it BECAUSE I COULDN'T AFFORD MY OWN APARTMENT! The next year, I was making enough money to not feel the financial need to challenge the idea of breaking up. Reverse the genders of the people in my example and it becomes an example of what I mean. I think most anti-feminists want the power to "keep" women and control their relationships with women. If a woman doesn't have the power to get money on her own, it is hard for her to leave a relationship or even live as an adult without a relationship. In traditional pre-lib societies females started life as daughters subservient to fathers, and became wives subservient to husbands. Throughout their lives, their individual security and power was derived from their individual subserviences to men. As to your statements about the mutual benefits of gender equality, I'm happy to agree with you. And I do think gender equality or the elimination of gender-centric views is good for our species. But I do believe males are losing power as a consequence of female liberation. I think our "losing power" is for a good cause, and that having that power was unjust. And I think that some other males don't want to lose that power and are doing what they can to try to keep it. They're not crazy or stupid, they're just nasty and selfish. I don't want to be adversarial with you, I do want to convince you that the Dave Sims of the world have a reason to act like they do and say what they say... Well, Jack, men and women often are in an adversarial paradigm, IMO. I think any sharing situation revolves around a finite quantity, whether we’re talking about resources, opportunities, land, whatever. There is always some limiting factor in the picture that means somebody can’t have everything at the same time as someone else has everything.
When I referred to “reduc(ing) the status of the dominant group”, I meant realities such as this (the following example is from my life and cutely reverses the genders- it’s actually the anti-libbers’ nightmare!): Back in the 90s my girlfriend and I broke up. A year previous, she wanted to break up but I worked my way through it BECAUSE I COULDN’T AFFORD MY OWN APARTMENT! The next year, I was making enough money to not feel the financial need to challenge the idea of breaking up.
Reverse the genders of the people in my example and it becomes an example of what I mean. I think most anti-feminists want the power to “keep” women and control their relationships with women. If a woman doesn’t have the power to get money on her own, it is hard for her to leave a relationship or even live as an adult without a relationship. In traditional pre-lib societies females started life as daughters subservient to fathers, and became wives subservient to husbands. Throughout their lives, their individual security and power was derived from their individual subserviences to men.
As to your statements about the mutual benefits of gender equality, I’m happy to agree with you. And I do think gender equality or the elimination of gender-centric views is good for our species.
But I do believe males are losing power as a consequence of female liberation. I think our “losing power” is for a good cause, and that having that power was unjust. And I think that some other males don’t want to lose that power and are doing what they can to try to keep it. They’re not crazy or stupid, they’re just nasty and selfish.
I don’t want to be adversarial with you, I do want to convince you that the Dave Sims of the world have a reason to act like they do and say what they say…

]]> By: Talon T M http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/09/dave-sim-responds/#comment-37262 Talon T M Thu, 10 Apr 2008 02:55:41 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/09/dave-sim-responds/#comment-37262 I never sent any of Heidi's article to Dave...I'm guessing that someone else did. What I sent was some of the conversations going on about this on the YAHOO group, and Dave responded with that Heidi quote. I never sent any of Heidi’s article to Dave…I’m guessing that someone else did. What I sent was some of the conversations going on about this on the YAHOO group, and Dave responded with that Heidi quote.

]]> By: Allen http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/09/dave-sim-responds/#comment-37261 Allen Thu, 10 Apr 2008 02:51:10 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/09/dave-sim-responds/#comment-37261 A-rod, it is okay...other than a faint attempt on your part to 'guide' my speech, I had no illusions that you intended humor. I eagerly await future exchanges when you surely will 'educate' me as to what issues exist, and which are those that I should embrace to your satisfaction. Toby, the only two comics entertainment blogs I read are written by women. Being male, I would attempt the argument that I already know what males think regarding comics and the like. I want to know what women think about the medium -- that might be a black mark against me, alas... A-rod, it is okay…other than a faint attempt on your part to ‘guide’ my speech, I had no illusions that you intended humor. I eagerly await future exchanges when you surely will ‘educate’ me as to what issues exist, and which are those that I should embrace to your satisfaction.

Toby, the only two comics entertainment blogs I read are written by women. Being male, I would attempt the argument that I already know what males think regarding comics and the like. I want to know what women think about the medium — that might be a black mark against me, alas…

]]> By: Alan Coil http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/09/dave-sim-responds/#comment-37260 Alan Coil Thu, 10 Apr 2008 02:01:39 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/09/dave-sim-responds/#comment-37260 Dave Sim doesn't read much of the internet, thus Talon has to prod Sim to respond to things he might otherwise never see. I wonder if Dave Sim sees the entire article that Heidi wrote, or just select parts cut-and-pasted into emails. And I wonder the same about Dave Sim's responses...are we seeing the entire email, or just parts that are selected to move an argument forward? Dave Sim doesn’t read much of the internet, thus Talon has to prod Sim to respond to things he might otherwise never see.

I wonder if Dave Sim sees the entire article that Heidi wrote, or just select parts cut-and-pasted into emails. And I wonder the same about Dave Sim’s responses…are we seeing the entire email, or just parts that are selected to move an argument forward?

]]> By: Peter Krause http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/09/dave-sim-responds/#comment-37259 Peter Krause Thu, 10 Apr 2008 01:47:10 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/09/dave-sim-responds/#comment-37259 Heidi's a man? There go all my illusions..... Heidi’s a man?

There go all my illusions…..

]]> By: Toby http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/09/dave-sim-responds/#comment-37258 Toby Thu, 10 Apr 2008 01:18:02 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/09/dave-sim-responds/#comment-37258 I love that every single comment here is by men. I love that every single comment here is by men.

]]> By: The Beat http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/09/dave-sim-responds/#comment-37257 The Beat Thu, 10 Apr 2008 00:39:56 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/09/dave-sim-responds/#comment-37257 Rick, the link was in there but I forgot to put a space between urls. It's readable now. Rick, the link was in there but I forgot to put a space between urls. It’s readable now.

]]> By: Talon T M http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/09/dave-sim-responds/#comment-37256 Talon T M Wed, 09 Apr 2008 23:39:19 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/09/dave-sim-responds/#comment-37256 For the whole story: http://www.comicsvillage.com/column.aspx?ArticleID=217 For the whole story:

http://www.comicsvillage.com/column.aspx?ArticleID=217

]]> By: A-rod http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/09/dave-sim-responds/#comment-37255 A-rod Wed, 09 Apr 2008 22:37:49 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/09/dave-sim-responds/#comment-37255 I apologize Allen, for my poor writing. I was merely trying to express what I believed the point of Heidi's original essay was and how Godwin's Law was as applicable as Murphy's , in my opinion. Once again, sorry I don't have a smug insult or pompous joke to follow up with. I apologize Allen, for my poor writing. I was merely trying to express what I believed the point of Heidi’s original essay was and how Godwin’s Law was as applicable as Murphy’s , in my opinion.

Once again, sorry I don’t have a smug insult or pompous joke to follow up with.

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