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	<title>Comments on: More on the origins of 20-something superhero fans</title>
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		<title>By: snes games</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/07/more-on-the-origins-of-20-something-superhero-fans/#comment-37165</link>
		<dc:creator>snes games</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 04:09:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/07/more-on-the-origins-of-20-something-superhero-fans/#comment-37165</guid>
		<description>Good post, nice and clear, thanks. Are you going to do an update on this post? I will subscribe to this blog!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post, nice and clear, thanks. Are you going to do an update on this post? I will subscribe to this blog!</p>
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		<title>By: David Cutler</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/07/more-on-the-origins-of-20-something-superhero-fans/#comment-37164</link>
		<dc:creator>David Cutler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 21:23:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/07/more-on-the-origins-of-20-something-superhero-fans/#comment-37164</guid>
		<description>Origins of a 25 year old comics fan:

I obsessed over Spider-Man as a kid, we didn&#039;t get the 80s Amazing Friends series where I loved but reruns of the 60s show was more than enough for me.  From birth I had Batman and Robin toys, so maybe I was conditioned?  I also had Justice League View Master reels, one where Aquaman helps Superman fight a giant water monster that just blew my mind, and made me a staunch supporter of Aquaman to this day.  I wasn&#039;t even aware there were such a thing as comic books until I was 5 or 6 when a neighbor kid started getting them.  I was pretty excited there were new Spider-Man stories out there in any format and eventually I started getting them from the drugstore myself (no shops within an hours&#039; drive in my province at the time, none within 8 hours drive now.)

I started with crap, a lot of it I was aware was crap even at the time... I remember being REPULSED by MJ, not being familiar with her from the TV series it was jarring to see Spider-Man married.  I was secretly beyond thinking girls were icky at that point but MJ was not the kind of girl I would be into at all... plus she was smoking at that point, I think... I was soured on her.  It was Daredevil, Captain America, and Batman until I lost interest.  The Clone Saga got me back in of all things, after hearing Ben Reily had replaced Parker.  Next I was buying Nightwing, Robin, PAD&#039;s Supergirl, and JLA--JLA being the moment I realized there might be something to comics other than then-cheap diversions.

I started reading a wider variety of things when I moved away to university, and only then did I start buying from comic shops.  I remember my comic buying life was a bit of a stress, because the local stores that actually carried comics would switch all the time, so every week was an excursion to see which stores had comics--and I&#039;d have to visit them all since the comics they got seemed essentially random.   It was frustrating but also part of the front for myself and my comic-buying friends.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Origins of a 25 year old comics fan:</p>
<p>I obsessed over Spider-Man as a kid, we didn&#8217;t get the 80s Amazing Friends series where I loved but reruns of the 60s show was more than enough for me.  From birth I had Batman and Robin toys, so maybe I was conditioned?  I also had Justice League View Master reels, one where Aquaman helps Superman fight a giant water monster that just blew my mind, and made me a staunch supporter of Aquaman to this day.  I wasn&#8217;t even aware there were such a thing as comic books until I was 5 or 6 when a neighbor kid started getting them.  I was pretty excited there were new Spider-Man stories out there in any format and eventually I started getting them from the drugstore myself (no shops within an hours&#8217; drive in my province at the time, none within 8 hours drive now.)</p>
<p>I started with crap, a lot of it I was aware was crap even at the time&#8230; I remember being REPULSED by MJ, not being familiar with her from the TV series it was jarring to see Spider-Man married.  I was secretly beyond thinking girls were icky at that point but MJ was not the kind of girl I would be into at all&#8230; plus she was smoking at that point, I think&#8230; I was soured on her.  It was Daredevil, Captain America, and Batman until I lost interest.  The Clone Saga got me back in of all things, after hearing Ben Reily had replaced Parker.  Next I was buying Nightwing, Robin, PAD&#8217;s Supergirl, and JLA&#8211;JLA being the moment I realized there might be something to comics other than then-cheap diversions.</p>
<p>I started reading a wider variety of things when I moved away to university, and only then did I start buying from comic shops.  I remember my comic buying life was a bit of a stress, because the local stores that actually carried comics would switch all the time, so every week was an excursion to see which stores had comics&#8211;and I&#8217;d have to visit them all since the comics they got seemed essentially random.   It was frustrating but also part of the front for myself and my comic-buying friends.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Coil</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/07/more-on-the-origins-of-20-something-superhero-fans/#comment-37163</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Coil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 00:52:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/07/more-on-the-origins-of-20-something-superhero-fans/#comment-37163</guid>
		<description>&quot;One possible solution might be to adjust the old 22-page paradigm to 32 or 48 pages so new readers feel they’re getting more for their money...&quot;

But they won&#039;t. Many readers today cry about comics priced at $3.99, even when they have more comics pages (unlike the recent Marvel comics that have had extra pages that were non-important text or stale reprints, which truly aren&#039;t worth the extra money).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;One possible solution might be to adjust the old 22-page paradigm to 32 or 48 pages so new readers feel they’re getting more for their money&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>But they won&#8217;t. Many readers today cry about comics priced at $3.99, even when they have more comics pages (unlike the recent Marvel comics that have had extra pages that were non-important text or stale reprints, which truly aren&#8217;t worth the extra money).</p>
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		<title>By: HABE</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/07/more-on-the-origins-of-20-something-superhero-fans/#comment-37162</link>
		<dc:creator>HABE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 19:44:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/07/more-on-the-origins-of-20-something-superhero-fans/#comment-37162</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt;&quot;But the Direct Market also created boutique shops that reduced the availability of comics geographically.

&gt;&gt;&quot;There really is a whole generation or two who never had the pleasure of stumbling across a comic at the drugstore or the 7-11 or the whatever, buying it, reading it, and then coming back the next day to see what else is there&quot;

I have to peacefully dispute all of this, Jesse. (I bought Buffy Season 8 at a 7-11.) The Direct Market did not stop newsstand distribution in any way. Newsstand distributors have tough requirements that only the biggest publishers with the highest circulations can meet. (Even so, a lot of comic book stores complained throughout the 90s about the way Wallmart, K-Mark, Target, and even local drugstores were selling shrinkwrapped sets of comics for less than what the Direct Market paid their own distributors.)

If your local newsstand/drugstore doesn&#039;t carry comics, it&#039;s because the profit from a $10 magazine makes the shelf space too valuable to waste on a $3 comic book.

I think the bigger issue is this: If you&#039;re a kid with 3 bucks, do you spend it on a comic book that you read alone and finish in 10 minutes, or do you rent Final Fantasy IV and play it with several friends for a few days? Comics are too expensive to compete for new entertainment dollars anymore.

One possible solution might be to adjust the old 22-page paradigm to 32 or 48 pages so new readers feel they&#039;re getting more for their money (and to allow for the decompression factor of contemporary comics storytelling). Overstuff each issue with ads to keep the cost significantly cheaper than the eventual ad-free Trade version will be, and maybe people will go back to buying both just like they used to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&gt;&#8221;But the Direct Market also created boutique shops that reduced the availability of comics geographically.</p>
<p>&gt;&gt;&#8221;There really is a whole generation or two who never had the pleasure of stumbling across a comic at the drugstore or the 7-11 or the whatever, buying it, reading it, and then coming back the next day to see what else is there&#8221;</p>
<p>I have to peacefully dispute all of this, Jesse. (I bought Buffy Season 8 at a 7-11.) The Direct Market did not stop newsstand distribution in any way. Newsstand distributors have tough requirements that only the biggest publishers with the highest circulations can meet. (Even so, a lot of comic book stores complained throughout the 90s about the way Wallmart, K-Mark, Target, and even local drugstores were selling shrinkwrapped sets of comics for less than what the Direct Market paid their own distributors.)</p>
<p>If your local newsstand/drugstore doesn&#8217;t carry comics, it&#8217;s because the profit from a $10 magazine makes the shelf space too valuable to waste on a $3 comic book.</p>
<p>I think the bigger issue is this: If you&#8217;re a kid with 3 bucks, do you spend it on a comic book that you read alone and finish in 10 minutes, or do you rent Final Fantasy IV and play it with several friends for a few days? Comics are too expensive to compete for new entertainment dollars anymore.</p>
<p>One possible solution might be to adjust the old 22-page paradigm to 32 or 48 pages so new readers feel they&#8217;re getting more for their money (and to allow for the decompression factor of contemporary comics storytelling). Overstuff each issue with ads to keep the cost significantly cheaper than the eventual ad-free Trade version will be, and maybe people will go back to buying both just like they used to.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Nicholson</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/07/more-on-the-origins-of-20-something-superhero-fans/#comment-37161</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Nicholson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 17:49:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/07/more-on-the-origins-of-20-something-superhero-fans/#comment-37161</guid>
		<description>I have no idea how many people downloaded illegally instead of buying something, and certainly even less of an idea of how much that would effect a specific book. I don&#039;t know how many people were downloading, or what their patterns were. For the people I know who talked about it, what was downloaded was mostly things you wouldn&#039;t buy, but had some vague level of interest in. &quot;I&#039;ll take it if it&#039;s free&quot; is pretty far from &quot;I refuse to spend money on this&quot; (with the latter being the opinion held by many people younger than me when it comes to buying music).

It also relates to the difference between comics as a specific kind of experience and object vs. delivery system for plot points. Specifically, in terms of aesthetic: I&#039;d buy a comic drawn by JH Williams whereas I might download someone else&#039;s comics because Williams&#039; layouts are really strong and look best on the page, right next to each other, rather than on a computer monitor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no idea how many people downloaded illegally instead of buying something, and certainly even less of an idea of how much that would effect a specific book. I don&#8217;t know how many people were downloading, or what their patterns were. For the people I know who talked about it, what was downloaded was mostly things you wouldn&#8217;t buy, but had some vague level of interest in. &#8220;I&#8217;ll take it if it&#8217;s free&#8221; is pretty far from &#8220;I refuse to spend money on this&#8221; (with the latter being the opinion held by many people younger than me when it comes to buying music).</p>
<p>It also relates to the difference between comics as a specific kind of experience and object vs. delivery system for plot points. Specifically, in terms of aesthetic: I&#8217;d buy a comic drawn by JH Williams whereas I might download someone else&#8217;s comics because Williams&#8217; layouts are really strong and look best on the page, right next to each other, rather than on a computer monitor.</p>
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		<title>By: Jesse Post</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/07/more-on-the-origins-of-20-something-superhero-fans/#comment-37160</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse Post</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 16:58:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/07/more-on-the-origins-of-20-something-superhero-fans/#comment-37160</guid>
		<description>Chris -- that&#039;s spot on. Content is a problem for sure but that came after the marketplace shift.

The Direct Market created boutique shops that are essential to the art form as they&#039;re &quot;safe havens&quot; where fans can find everything they need and aren&#039;t subject to the whims of newsstand distributors. But the Direct Market also created boutique shops that reduced the availability of comics geographically.

There really is a whole generation or two who never had the pleasure of stumbling across a comic at the drugstore or the 7-11 or the whatever, buying it, reading it, and then coming back the next day to see what else is there.

The best comic book specialty shops reach out to new customers through events and promotions, etc., but I don&#039;t think very many specifically reach out to kids. Note that most &quot;kids comics sections&quot; (if they have any in your local stores at all) are in that dark corner in the back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris &#8212; that&#8217;s spot on. Content is a problem for sure but that came after the marketplace shift.</p>
<p>The Direct Market created boutique shops that are essential to the art form as they&#8217;re &#8220;safe havens&#8221; where fans can find everything they need and aren&#8217;t subject to the whims of newsstand distributors. But the Direct Market also created boutique shops that reduced the availability of comics geographically.</p>
<p>There really is a whole generation or two who never had the pleasure of stumbling across a comic at the drugstore or the 7-11 or the whatever, buying it, reading it, and then coming back the next day to see what else is there.</p>
<p>The best comic book specialty shops reach out to new customers through events and promotions, etc., but I don&#8217;t think very many specifically reach out to kids. Note that most &#8220;kids comics sections&#8221; (if they have any in your local stores at all) are in that dark corner in the back.</p>
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		<title>By: Jesse Post</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/07/more-on-the-origins-of-20-something-superhero-fans/#comment-37159</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse Post</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 16:49:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/07/more-on-the-origins-of-20-something-superhero-fans/#comment-37159</guid>
		<description>Brian -- how much fault for the low sales do you think can be put on illegal downloading? I wonder how many more sales &quot;Brave and the Bold&quot; would have had if all of its readers actually paid for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian &#8212; how much fault for the low sales do you think can be put on illegal downloading? I wonder how many more sales &#8220;Brave and the Bold&#8221; would have had if all of its readers actually paid for it.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Nicholson</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/07/more-on-the-origins-of-20-something-superhero-fans/#comment-37158</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Nicholson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 06:15:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/07/more-on-the-origins-of-20-something-superhero-fans/#comment-37158</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m twenty-two, and started reading comics when they were terrible, and continued to read them when they were terrible. Spider-clones, whatever. All of that. I did the typical branching out thing that I&#039;m sure you&#039;ve heard a million times before. I&#039;m now of an income where most superhero comics just don&#039;t seem good enough for the amount of enjoyment I&#039;d get from them- I thought Brave and the Bold was readable enough when I was illegally downloading it, but it was when I was downloading things illegally that I found out exactly how rare that was.

It&#039;s the kind of comic I might buy if I were able to do the thing where I bought a stack of comics every week, if I walked into the store with twenty bucks I was determined to spend on comics. But that&#039;s not how I buy comics these days.

Oh wait maybe I don&#039;t count as a superhero fan, so much as just a comics reader who buys the occasional well-regarded superhero comic- your All-Star Supermans, your Omega the Unknowns, your New Frontiers- but a lot more independent stuff.

Brave And The Bold is pretty well-reviewed, but somehow doesn&#039;t break through- probably it doesn&#039;t seem distinct and weird enough due to the Perez/Ordway art. I don&#039;t want to put it on Waid, because Morrison pasts muster, and while they&#039;re fairly different as artists they were viewed as doing similar things during the nineties, and it&#039;s not like Morrison&#039;s doing the creator-owned work that distinguishes him as a big weirdo these days. It&#039;s a book that&#039;s a different artist away from feeling like a weird and distinct thing (that would be characterized as a &quot;fun&quot; comic) rather than a nostalgia trip (these also get characterized as &quot;fun&quot;). I&#039;d prefer to read the former, but I&#039;m very much in the minority.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m twenty-two, and started reading comics when they were terrible, and continued to read them when they were terrible. Spider-clones, whatever. All of that. I did the typical branching out thing that I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ve heard a million times before. I&#8217;m now of an income where most superhero comics just don&#8217;t seem good enough for the amount of enjoyment I&#8217;d get from them- I thought Brave and the Bold was readable enough when I was illegally downloading it, but it was when I was downloading things illegally that I found out exactly how rare that was.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s the kind of comic I might buy if I were able to do the thing where I bought a stack of comics every week, if I walked into the store with twenty bucks I was determined to spend on comics. But that&#8217;s not how I buy comics these days.</p>
<p>Oh wait maybe I don&#8217;t count as a superhero fan, so much as just a comics reader who buys the occasional well-regarded superhero comic- your All-Star Supermans, your Omega the Unknowns, your New Frontiers- but a lot more independent stuff.</p>
<p>Brave And The Bold is pretty well-reviewed, but somehow doesn&#8217;t break through- probably it doesn&#8217;t seem distinct and weird enough due to the Perez/Ordway art. I don&#8217;t want to put it on Waid, because Morrison pasts muster, and while they&#8217;re fairly different as artists they were viewed as doing similar things during the nineties, and it&#8217;s not like Morrison&#8217;s doing the creator-owned work that distinguishes him as a big weirdo these days. It&#8217;s a book that&#8217;s a different artist away from feeling like a weird and distinct thing (that would be characterized as a &#8220;fun&#8221; comic) rather than a nostalgia trip (these also get characterized as &#8220;fun&#8221;). I&#8217;d prefer to read the former, but I&#8217;m very much in the minority.</p>
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		<title>By: Torsten Adair</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/07/more-on-the-origins-of-20-something-superhero-fans/#comment-37157</link>
		<dc:creator>Torsten Adair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 23:37:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/07/more-on-the-origins-of-20-something-superhero-fans/#comment-37157</guid>
		<description>Comics have never totally disappeared from newsstand distribution (Archie is proof of this!).  When I worked for SuperCrown Books (`94-`97), we had a spinner rack which featured Archie, DC, Marvel, Dark Horse, and Image titles.  (Some of which did not display the Comics Code seal.)

Sourcelink, which serves Barnes &amp; Noble and Borders, offers over 100 titles.  Borders has a dedicated rack, B&amp;N tends to place them with other magazines.  Gas stations, which have very valuable real estate,  tend to have one magazine rack, and thus tend to carry the more popular magazines.

Small town america?  Well, that&#039;s hard.  You get them by mail, either buying them via mail order, or asking your local library to request them.  Most states have networked library catalogs to facilitate lending.  (The Iowa SILO locator lists 4,096 titles under the subject of &quot;comic books, strips, etc.&quot;)  Or you hop in your car and drive an hour or two to your local hobby store or regional metropolitan area where they may be shopping center.  Or you go online and read them or download them.  (When I attended Cornell College in Mt. Vernon, Iowa in 1988-89, I depended on the weekly free bus to Iowa City or Cedar Rapids, or I ordered my comics from an ad I found in the Comics Buyer&#039;s Guide.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Comics have never totally disappeared from newsstand distribution (Archie is proof of this!).  When I worked for SuperCrown Books (`94-`97), we had a spinner rack which featured Archie, DC, Marvel, Dark Horse, and Image titles.  (Some of which did not display the Comics Code seal.)</p>
<p>Sourcelink, which serves Barnes &amp; Noble and Borders, offers over 100 titles.  Borders has a dedicated rack, B&amp;N tends to place them with other magazines.  Gas stations, which have very valuable real estate,  tend to have one magazine rack, and thus tend to carry the more popular magazines.</p>
<p>Small town america?  Well, that&#8217;s hard.  You get them by mail, either buying them via mail order, or asking your local library to request them.  Most states have networked library catalogs to facilitate lending.  (The Iowa SILO locator lists 4,096 titles under the subject of &#8220;comic books, strips, etc.&#8221;)  Or you hop in your car and drive an hour or two to your local hobby store or regional metropolitan area where they may be shopping center.  Or you go online and read them or download them.  (When I attended Cornell College in Mt. Vernon, Iowa in 1988-89, I depended on the weekly free bus to Iowa City or Cedar Rapids, or I ordered my comics from an ad I found in the Comics Buyer&#8217;s Guide.)</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Williams</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/07/more-on-the-origins-of-20-something-superhero-fans/#comment-37156</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 23:22:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/07/more-on-the-origins-of-20-something-superhero-fans/#comment-37156</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not like every single person who starting buying comics in the 90s left when the bust happened. Many of those people continued on- especially the ones who actually liked the stories. I know artist Skottie Young has often remarked on Around Comics that he came into reading comics in the 90s and thus considers those &quot;classic&quot; in the same way I think of Paul Smith on X-Men or Simonson on Thor. Recent market growth also suggests that many of the ones who quit have started to come back.

There&#039;s a few terms that seem to get lumped in together, though I think they technically mean slightly different things: decompression, widescreen, and writing for the trade. I think decompression actually is a storytelling style that is influenced by manga which often draws out small moments into long sequences in order to build tension. Compare this to the storytelling on display in theEssential volumes where Lee and Kirby tell in one panel what would take an entire story arc/trade in today&#039;s comics. I see widescreen as more of an artistic device (you don&#039;t have to draw lots of tall buildings or feet) while writing for the trade (it&#039;s also easier for newer readers since you don&#039;t have confusing panel flow issues) is more of a business consideration and editorial edict. They have all combined together in a sense but I still think the terms mean different things and should be applied accordingly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not like every single person who starting buying comics in the 90s left when the bust happened. Many of those people continued on- especially the ones who actually liked the stories. I know artist Skottie Young has often remarked on Around Comics that he came into reading comics in the 90s and thus considers those &#8220;classic&#8221; in the same way I think of Paul Smith on X-Men or Simonson on Thor. Recent market growth also suggests that many of the ones who quit have started to come back.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a few terms that seem to get lumped in together, though I think they technically mean slightly different things: decompression, widescreen, and writing for the trade. I think decompression actually is a storytelling style that is influenced by manga which often draws out small moments into long sequences in order to build tension. Compare this to the storytelling on display in theEssential volumes where Lee and Kirby tell in one panel what would take an entire story arc/trade in today&#8217;s comics. I see widescreen as more of an artistic device (you don&#8217;t have to draw lots of tall buildings or feet) while writing for the trade (it&#8217;s also easier for newer readers since you don&#8217;t have confusing panel flow issues) is more of a business consideration and editorial edict. They have all combined together in a sense but I still think the terms mean different things and should be applied accordingly.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Miller</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/07/more-on-the-origins-of-20-something-superhero-fans/#comment-37155</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 22:36:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/07/more-on-the-origins-of-20-something-superhero-fans/#comment-37155</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s worth noting that, to a large extent, the industry didn&#039;t shift away from the everyday stores as much as the everyday stores (and the distributors that served them) shifted away from the industry. Not entirely, of course, but to a very large extent. The Direct Market was both the best and the worst thing to happen to comics, depending on what angle you use to look at it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s worth noting that, to a large extent, the industry didn&#8217;t shift away from the everyday stores as much as the everyday stores (and the distributors that served them) shifted away from the industry. Not entirely, of course, but to a very large extent. The Direct Market was both the best and the worst thing to happen to comics, depending on what angle you use to look at it.</p>
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		<title>By: The Dane</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/07/more-on-the-origins-of-20-something-superhero-fans/#comment-37154</link>
		<dc:creator>The Dane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 22:35:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/07/more-on-the-origins-of-20-something-superhero-fans/#comment-37154</guid>
		<description>If a story is told in compressed style and told well, then it is a good story. If a story is told in decompressed style and told well, then it is a good story. We should care more about good stories rather than what style through which the story is told.

We don&#039;t place this restriction on other media, so why should we be so happy to apply it to comics? In prose literature, there are great short stories, great novellas, and great novels; and sometimes one choice is better than others. We don&#039;t have this problem with cinema either: both Antonioni&#039;s &lt;i&gt;L&#039;Avventura&lt;/i&gt; and Curtiz&#039;s &lt;i&gt;Casablanca&lt;/i&gt; are great films, but nothing happens in one and everything happens in the other.

I think if there&#039;s room for different styles of lauded storytelling in other media, we should probably allow for such a thing in the comics medium as well.

I will grant you this however: just like I wait for DVD for long-stretch, episodic television shows to be collected (e.g., &lt;i&gt;LOST&lt;/i&gt;), I wait for collections of monthlies as well. I just read the last seven years of &lt;i&gt;Ultimate Spider-Man&lt;/i&gt; over the course of a couple weeks and it actually flows really well&#8212;despite being a little frustrating back when I bought it month-to-month. I suspect this to be the case, for a lot of the current crop of monthlies, just like it is for television series.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If a story is told in compressed style and told well, then it is a good story. If a story is told in decompressed style and told well, then it is a good story. We should care more about good stories rather than what style through which the story is told.</p>
<p>We don&#8217;t place this restriction on other media, so why should we be so happy to apply it to comics? In prose literature, there are great short stories, great novellas, and great novels; and sometimes one choice is better than others. We don&#8217;t have this problem with cinema either: both Antonioni&#8217;s <i>L&#8217;Avventura</i> and Curtiz&#8217;s <i>Casablanca</i> are great films, but nothing happens in one and everything happens in the other.</p>
<p>I think if there&#8217;s room for different styles of lauded storytelling in other media, we should probably allow for such a thing in the comics medium as well.</p>
<p>I will grant you this however: just like I wait for DVD for long-stretch, episodic television shows to be collected (e.g., <i>LOST</i>), I wait for collections of monthlies as well. I just read the last seven years of <i>Ultimate Spider-Man</i> over the course of a couple weeks and it actually flows really well&#8212;despite being a little frustrating back when I bought it month-to-month. I suspect this to be the case, for a lot of the current crop of monthlies, just like it is for television series.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Schweizer</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/07/more-on-the-origins-of-20-something-superhero-fans/#comment-37153</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Schweizer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 22:13:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/07/more-on-the-origins-of-20-something-superhero-fans/#comment-37153</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not the content that cut off kids from reading comics, it&#039;s the availability.  When comics stopped being sold as periodicals, regular stores (groceries, gas stations, etc) most kids stopped having access to them.  Sure, there are comic stores, but those require a special trip, something a lot of kids can&#039;t swing, and for the huge amount of minors in small towns unable to sustain a comic store there was nothing at all (I was one of those regional sufferers).

I was able to get them up through about ninth grade before they stopped being carried.  I recently turned twenty-seven.

The question is how many kids who were in late-elementary/early middle school ( the age I&#039;d say most kids start buying their own comics) when the industry shifted away from everyday stores to the direct market system started/continued to read?  The kids who are twenty-three, twenty-four?

I&#039;d bet the numbers drop considerably.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not the content that cut off kids from reading comics, it&#8217;s the availability.  When comics stopped being sold as periodicals, regular stores (groceries, gas stations, etc) most kids stopped having access to them.  Sure, there are comic stores, but those require a special trip, something a lot of kids can&#8217;t swing, and for the huge amount of minors in small towns unable to sustain a comic store there was nothing at all (I was one of those regional sufferers).</p>
<p>I was able to get them up through about ninth grade before they stopped being carried.  I recently turned twenty-seven.</p>
<p>The question is how many kids who were in late-elementary/early middle school ( the age I&#8217;d say most kids start buying their own comics) when the industry shifted away from everyday stores to the direct market system started/continued to read?  The kids who are twenty-three, twenty-four?</p>
<p>I&#8217;d bet the numbers drop considerably.</p>
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		<title>By: Seth Hollander</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/07/more-on-the-origins-of-20-something-superhero-fans/#comment-37152</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth Hollander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 18:07:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/07/more-on-the-origins-of-20-something-superhero-fans/#comment-37152</guid>
		<description>I think this is a textbook example of &quot;compressed&quot; vs. &quot;decompressed&quot; in comics: Stan Lee and Steve Ditko create Amazing Fantasy 15, the first Spiderman issue and his origin story. During a couple of pages of that issue Peter Parker luxuriates in his new abilities. Having been a social nerd/loser all his life, he uses his new powers to get adoration and money. He ignores the potential to use these powers heroically and, in doing so, fails to prevent the death of his father-figure. From these few pages come the idea &quot;With great power comes great responsibility&quot; and more than 4 decades of heroic-Spiderman comics.
Currently Marvel is publishing a 5 issue (over 100 pages) miniseries by Dave Lapham and Tony Harris called Spiderman: With Great Power... This series retells the story of Parker&#039;s post-powers/pre-hero pages in the modern style.
Decompression in action...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this is a textbook example of &#8220;compressed&#8221; vs. &#8220;decompressed&#8221; in comics: Stan Lee and Steve Ditko create Amazing Fantasy 15, the first Spiderman issue and his origin story. During a couple of pages of that issue Peter Parker luxuriates in his new abilities. Having been a social nerd/loser all his life, he uses his new powers to get adoration and money. He ignores the potential to use these powers heroically and, in doing so, fails to prevent the death of his father-figure. From these few pages come the idea &#8220;With great power comes great responsibility&#8221; and more than 4 decades of heroic-Spiderman comics.<br />
Currently Marvel is publishing a 5 issue (over 100 pages) miniseries by Dave Lapham and Tony Harris called Spiderman: With Great Power&#8230; This series retells the story of Parker&#8217;s post-powers/pre-hero pages in the modern style.<br />
Decompression in action&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jesse Post</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/07/more-on-the-origins-of-20-something-superhero-fans/#comment-37151</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse Post</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 18:00:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/04/07/more-on-the-origins-of-20-something-superhero-fans/#comment-37151</guid>
		<description>Well it&#039;s clear that what we&#039;re talking about here is good storytelling so I&#039;m not sure if it&#039;s helpful to keep pointing that out. The implied question is whether decompressed or compressed stories are &quot;good&quot; and if so, in which instances are they?

I feel that the terms are unfortunate since they put the veneer of an intentional literary movement on something that was probably more accidental. I&#039;ve never heard Stan Lee discuss this himself, but it seems clear that he wasn&#039;t trying to tell &quot;compressed&quot; stories because he liked them better. I think it probably just didn&#039;t occur to him to tell a multi-part tale (or at least one that would take 6 issues to tell). It certainly couldn&#039;t have occurred to him back then to &quot;write for the trade&quot; since there was no such thing. So what we see as a literary trend was probably more of an arbitrary business-minded decision. (&quot;Well it looks like I reached the page limit and ran out of room. I&#039;ll have to go back and squeeze in more stuff.&quot;)

It&#039;s true that the art form has matured over the past few decades and that explains why we need more room to tell stories. Silent panels can be funnier or more emotional. Extra panels in a scene can slow down the moment. These are all things that make comics more character-driven and therefore more satisfying. The fact that they also require more pages (making them &quot;decompressed&quot;) seems like more of side effect.

Now, whether or not writers should take their big stories and break them down into arbitrary 22-page segments rather than releasing single-volume superhero graphic novels is a topic for another day. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well it&#8217;s clear that what we&#8217;re talking about here is good storytelling so I&#8217;m not sure if it&#8217;s helpful to keep pointing that out. The implied question is whether decompressed or compressed stories are &#8220;good&#8221; and if so, in which instances are they?</p>
<p>I feel that the terms are unfortunate since they put the veneer of an intentional literary movement on something that was probably more accidental. I&#8217;ve never heard Stan Lee discuss this himself, but it seems clear that he wasn&#8217;t trying to tell &#8220;compressed&#8221; stories because he liked them better. I think it probably just didn&#8217;t occur to him to tell a multi-part tale (or at least one that would take 6 issues to tell). It certainly couldn&#8217;t have occurred to him back then to &#8220;write for the trade&#8221; since there was no such thing. So what we see as a literary trend was probably more of an arbitrary business-minded decision. (&#8220;Well it looks like I reached the page limit and ran out of room. I&#8217;ll have to go back and squeeze in more stuff.&#8221;)</p>
<p>It&#8217;s true that the art form has matured over the past few decades and that explains why we need more room to tell stories. Silent panels can be funnier or more emotional. Extra panels in a scene can slow down the moment. These are all things that make comics more character-driven and therefore more satisfying. The fact that they also require more pages (making them &#8220;decompressed&#8221;) seems like more of side effect.</p>
<p>Now, whether or not writers should take their big stories and break them down into arbitrary 22-page segments rather than releasing single-volume superhero graphic novels is a topic for another day. :)</p>
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