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	<title>Comments on: Mainstream Spidey coverage</title>
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	<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/01/07/mainstream-spidey-coverage/</link>
	<description>The News Blog of Comics Culture</description>
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		<title>By: rich</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/01/07/mainstream-spidey-coverage/#comment-30423</link>
		<dc:creator>rich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 15:59:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/01/07/mainstream-spidey-coverage/#comment-30423</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve got a grip.  But OMD is stupid beyond belief.  And if Marvel expects people to shell out money for their product, &quot;it&#039;s only a comic&quot; doesn&#039;t wash.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve got a grip.  But OMD is stupid beyond belief.  And if Marvel expects people to shell out money for their product, &#8220;it&#8217;s only a comic&#8221; doesn&#8217;t wash.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter's Parker</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/01/07/mainstream-spidey-coverage/#comment-30422</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter's Parker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 08:24:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/01/07/mainstream-spidey-coverage/#comment-30422</guid>
		<description>To Rich &amp; Brett (and all the others who are having conniptions over OMD/BND):

Really guys, you just need to get a grip: It&#039;s. only. a. comic. book.

And never forget: the marriage was an editorially mandated publicity stunt in the very first place. So in that regard, this is just a matter of the series coming full circle. And it&#039;s always good to shake things up every once in awhile. Keep things fresh, ya know?

I, for one, am just going to kick back and enjoy some good stories. &#039;Nuff said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Rich &amp; Brett (and all the others who are having conniptions over OMD/BND):</p>
<p>Really guys, you just need to get a grip: It&#8217;s. only. a. comic. book.</p>
<p>And never forget: the marriage was an editorially mandated publicity stunt in the very first place. So in that regard, this is just a matter of the series coming full circle. And it&#8217;s always good to shake things up every once in awhile. Keep things fresh, ya know?</p>
<p>I, for one, am just going to kick back and enjoy some good stories. &#8216;Nuff said.</p>
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		<title>By: Wraith</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/01/07/mainstream-spidey-coverage/#comment-30421</link>
		<dc:creator>Wraith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 04:14:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/01/07/mainstream-spidey-coverage/#comment-30421</guid>
		<description>Brett, a few quick points.

1. The 2 million copies of SPIDER-MAN #1 that were sold to speculators and fans of Mcfarlane&#039;s ART (NOT his writing) is proof that fans were MAINLY interested in the art since the story Todd wrote was complete crap. The fact that the issues of SPIDER-MAN that were written and drawn by Todd outsold those issues of ASM that were written by Micheline (who is leaps and bounds a better writer then Todd will ever be) is proof that sales on those issues drawn by Todd were MAINLY due to Todd&#039;s art and NOT because of the writing and art.

2. I think you need to follow your own damn advise and find yourself either (a) a new hobby or (b) move onto other comics that may appeal to your obviously changing and &quot;maturing&quot; tastes.

3. If anyone is &quot;bitter&quot; and throwing a &quot;pissy fit&quot; it&#039;s selfish fans like yourself who can&#039;t accept that a character like Spider-Man is NOT meant to age and grow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brett, a few quick points.</p>
<p>1. The 2 million copies of SPIDER-MAN #1 that were sold to speculators and fans of Mcfarlane&#8217;s ART (NOT his writing) is proof that fans were MAINLY interested in the art since the story Todd wrote was complete crap. The fact that the issues of SPIDER-MAN that were written and drawn by Todd outsold those issues of ASM that were written by Micheline (who is leaps and bounds a better writer then Todd will ever be) is proof that sales on those issues drawn by Todd were MAINLY due to Todd&#8217;s art and NOT because of the writing and art.</p>
<p>2. I think you need to follow your own damn advise and find yourself either (a) a new hobby or (b) move onto other comics that may appeal to your obviously changing and &#8220;maturing&#8221; tastes.</p>
<p>3. If anyone is &#8220;bitter&#8221; and throwing a &#8220;pissy fit&#8221; it&#8217;s selfish fans like yourself who can&#8217;t accept that a character like Spider-Man is NOT meant to age and grow.</p>
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		<title>By: brett</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/01/07/mainstream-spidey-coverage/#comment-30420</link>
		<dc:creator>brett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 03:13:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/01/07/mainstream-spidey-coverage/#comment-30420</guid>
		<description>Yeah Rich,

It doesn&#039;t even matter. It sold. It featured the married couple. Him being married had no affect on his appeal to readers, not for 20 years.

Wraith,

The people bought the Micheline / McFarlane Spiderman because of the stories AND art, one of which introduced Venom at a time when the couple was married.

You should listen to yourself and take your own advice. We know you feel Peter works better unmarried and you&#039;re probably all wet in the chair now that both you and Peter can relive your childhood.

But it doesn&#039;t change anything.

The character as directed by his creator, for whatever the reason, grew up and got married... 20 years ago.

Twenty.

Twenty years is a long time for you to be harboring this itch, hoping to read about him single again. That&#039;s a long time to be bitter buddy.

Maybe its time you found a new hobby... because the characters will be back together again. Others before Joe Q tried getting rid of the marriage, even rebooted the entire series... before that too fell flat on their face and those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

What are you and all the anti-marriage whiners going to do then?

Throw a pissy fit?

Here, some guy said this...

&quot;You and other readers need to wake up and accept the fact that these characters DO NOT mirror your own lives and that they won’t die in the comics when you die.

Done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah Rich,</p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t even matter. It sold. It featured the married couple. Him being married had no affect on his appeal to readers, not for 20 years.</p>
<p>Wraith,</p>
<p>The people bought the Micheline / McFarlane Spiderman because of the stories AND art, one of which introduced Venom at a time when the couple was married.</p>
<p>You should listen to yourself and take your own advice. We know you feel Peter works better unmarried and you&#8217;re probably all wet in the chair now that both you and Peter can relive your childhood.</p>
<p>But it doesn&#8217;t change anything.</p>
<p>The character as directed by his creator, for whatever the reason, grew up and got married&#8230; 20 years ago.</p>
<p>Twenty.</p>
<p>Twenty years is a long time for you to be harboring this itch, hoping to read about him single again. That&#8217;s a long time to be bitter buddy.</p>
<p>Maybe its time you found a new hobby&#8230; because the characters will be back together again. Others before Joe Q tried getting rid of the marriage, even rebooted the entire series&#8230; before that too fell flat on their face and those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.</p>
<p>What are you and all the anti-marriage whiners going to do then?</p>
<p>Throw a pissy fit?</p>
<p>Here, some guy said this&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;You and other readers need to wake up and accept the fact that these characters DO NOT mirror your own lives and that they won’t die in the comics when you die.</p>
<p>Done.</p>
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		<title>By: Catullus</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/01/07/mainstream-spidey-coverage/#comment-30419</link>
		<dc:creator>Catullus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 02:10:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/01/07/mainstream-spidey-coverage/#comment-30419</guid>
		<description>Heidi, doesn&#039;t the chance of &quot;character fatigue&quot; interfere with the ability of new readers to pick up the series?  Think of those blurbs from the companies that talk about &quot;A perfect entry point into...&quot;  Even if true, there&#039;d be all that prior continuity going on out there... and somebody would be holding on to it for dear life (think Rich Morrissey being angry enough at John Byrne&#039;s reboot of Superman in the 1980s that he was pcitured actually ripping MoS#1 in half).  And those people don&#039;t give up on their cherished mythos easily...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heidi, doesn&#8217;t the chance of &#8220;character fatigue&#8221; interfere with the ability of new readers to pick up the series?  Think of those blurbs from the companies that talk about &#8220;A perfect entry point into&#8230;&#8221;  Even if true, there&#8217;d be all that prior continuity going on out there&#8230; and somebody would be holding on to it for dear life (think Rich Morrissey being angry enough at John Byrne&#8217;s reboot of Superman in the 1980s that he was pcitured actually ripping MoS#1 in half).  And those people don&#8217;t give up on their cherished mythos easily&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Wraith</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/01/07/mainstream-spidey-coverage/#comment-30418</link>
		<dc:creator>Wraith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 01:52:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/01/07/mainstream-spidey-coverage/#comment-30418</guid>
		<description>Brett, unless the book is being drawn by Jim Lee or Mcfarlane, any high sales for BND will most likely be due to a combination of art and story.

And OMT, you do know that Marvel (and DC) superhero comics were NEVER meant to grow and age with their readers. The ONLY reason why Stan Lee originally had the Marvel characters aging in real time is because he didn&#039;t think the books and characters would be around for very long. He thought these books were going to be canceled a few years after he co-created them. Once he realized that the books were a hit, he stopped aging the characters.

You and other readers need to wake up and accept the fact that these characters DO NOT mirror your own lives and that they won&#039;t die in the comics when you die.

And for the record, I HATED OMD (especially the part where Peter and MJ made an out of character deal with Mephisto).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brett, unless the book is being drawn by Jim Lee or Mcfarlane, any high sales for BND will most likely be due to a combination of art and story.</p>
<p>And OMT, you do know that Marvel (and DC) superhero comics were NEVER meant to grow and age with their readers. The ONLY reason why Stan Lee originally had the Marvel characters aging in real time is because he didn&#8217;t think the books and characters would be around for very long. He thought these books were going to be canceled a few years after he co-created them. Once he realized that the books were a hit, he stopped aging the characters.</p>
<p>You and other readers need to wake up and accept the fact that these characters DO NOT mirror your own lives and that they won&#8217;t die in the comics when you die.</p>
<p>And for the record, I HATED OMD (especially the part where Peter and MJ made an out of character deal with Mephisto).</p>
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		<title>By: rich</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/01/07/mainstream-spidey-coverage/#comment-30417</link>
		<dc:creator>rich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 20:41:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/01/07/mainstream-spidey-coverage/#comment-30417</guid>
		<description>&quot;Whether people bought it for McFarlane or not, people still bought it, still enjoyed it, young and old… in droves ...&quot;

Well, no ... people bought it and planned to flip &#039;em for big money.  Young and old.  But many probably didn&#039;t even read it.  So sales of this book are no argument for keeping them married.  (Although OMD remains an idiot plot, defined as a plot that can be told only if everyone in the story are idiots)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Whether people bought it for McFarlane or not, people still bought it, still enjoyed it, young and old… in droves &#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, no &#8230; people bought it and planned to flip &#8216;em for big money.  Young and old.  But many probably didn&#8217;t even read it.  So sales of this book are no argument for keeping them married.  (Although OMD remains an idiot plot, defined as a plot that can be told only if everyone in the story are idiots)</p>
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		<title>By: Sphinx Magoo</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/01/07/mainstream-spidey-coverage/#comment-30416</link>
		<dc:creator>Sphinx Magoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 20:14:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/01/07/mainstream-spidey-coverage/#comment-30416</guid>
		<description>If BND sells, it&#039;ll be because people have said: &quot;Ah! Finally! The event&#039;s over. Now we can get back to some regular stories.&quot;

DC readers (like myself) are waiting to be able to say this sometime around 2012.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If BND sells, it&#8217;ll be because people have said: &#8220;Ah! Finally! The event&#8217;s over. Now we can get back to some regular stories.&#8221;</p>
<p>DC readers (like myself) are waiting to be able to say this sometime around 2012.</p>
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		<title>By: brett tolino</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/01/07/mainstream-spidey-coverage/#comment-30415</link>
		<dc:creator>brett tolino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 18:13:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/01/07/mainstream-spidey-coverage/#comment-30415</guid>
		<description>Oh and Wraith, what you said about my point?

Match: if BND sells, it won&#039;t be because people are dying to read about single Peter again, it&#039;ll be because of McNiven, Bacchalo or Jimenez&#039;s art.

Your argument holds no water.

The same creators could be doing the art featuring a story about the married couple, like McFarlane did, who wasn&#039;t whining when he was on the book, &#039;Oh, this books no good, it doesn&#039;t appeal to anyone, I can&#039;t do anything with a married Peter Parker...&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh and Wraith, what you said about my point?</p>
<p>Match: if BND sells, it won&#8217;t be because people are dying to read about single Peter again, it&#8217;ll be because of McNiven, Bacchalo or Jimenez&#8217;s art.</p>
<p>Your argument holds no water.</p>
<p>The same creators could be doing the art featuring a story about the married couple, like McFarlane did, who wasn&#8217;t whining when he was on the book, &#8216;Oh, this books no good, it doesn&#8217;t appeal to anyone, I can&#8217;t do anything with a married Peter Parker&#8230;&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: brett tolino</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/01/07/mainstream-spidey-coverage/#comment-30414</link>
		<dc:creator>brett tolino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 18:09:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/01/07/mainstream-spidey-coverage/#comment-30414</guid>
		<description>Whether 1.5 million individual people bought the book or not is irrelevant, it still sold, still featured married Peter and Mary Jane.

McFarlane&#039;s run on the regular book AMAZING before that was so hot, it was on fire... also featuring married Peter and Mary Jane.

Whether people bought it for McFarlane or not, people still bought it, still enjoyed it, young and old... in droves, featuring a very married Peter Parker. If there isn&#039;t another person who could make the book sell like that or figure out interesting things to do with the married couple since McFarlane, that&#039;s the fault of the creators you hired, not the situation.

All of you who are telling the fans who want to see time move forward, not back, go take a good look in the mirror:

All you people who, like Joe Q, are whining that they want to read about their single Peter Parker, quit crying.

He got married, no one took away your childhood so stop whining &#039;awww he&#039;s no fun anymore&#039; and go read a back issue.

The marriage happened 20 friggin years ago! Talk about overgrown fanboys harboring a grudge!

Get over it already!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whether 1.5 million individual people bought the book or not is irrelevant, it still sold, still featured married Peter and Mary Jane.</p>
<p>McFarlane&#8217;s run on the regular book AMAZING before that was so hot, it was on fire&#8230; also featuring married Peter and Mary Jane.</p>
<p>Whether people bought it for McFarlane or not, people still bought it, still enjoyed it, young and old&#8230; in droves, featuring a very married Peter Parker. If there isn&#8217;t another person who could make the book sell like that or figure out interesting things to do with the married couple since McFarlane, that&#8217;s the fault of the creators you hired, not the situation.</p>
<p>All of you who are telling the fans who want to see time move forward, not back, go take a good look in the mirror:</p>
<p>All you people who, like Joe Q, are whining that they want to read about their single Peter Parker, quit crying.</p>
<p>He got married, no one took away your childhood so stop whining &#8216;awww he&#8217;s no fun anymore&#8217; and go read a back issue.</p>
<p>The marriage happened 20 friggin years ago! Talk about overgrown fanboys harboring a grudge!</p>
<p>Get over it already!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: rich</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/01/07/mainstream-spidey-coverage/#comment-30413</link>
		<dc:creator>rich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 17:45:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/01/07/mainstream-spidey-coverage/#comment-30413</guid>
		<description>Slightly off-topic, Heidi, if I may:
A friend of mine loves MJ ... and insists that MJ was always more popular than Gwen Stacey.  As a guy who was following Spidey in the 70s ... I always got the impression that Gwen was more popular.  Stan Lee has said MJ was more popular, but (with all due respect to Stan), I get the impression that Stan is just towing the company line and doing a PR retcon.  Anyone know if Gwen won the popularity contest?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Slightly off-topic, Heidi, if I may:<br />
A friend of mine loves MJ &#8230; and insists that MJ was always more popular than Gwen Stacey.  As a guy who was following Spidey in the 70s &#8230; I always got the impression that Gwen was more popular.  Stan Lee has said MJ was more popular, but (with all due respect to Stan), I get the impression that Stan is just towing the company line and doing a PR retcon.  Anyone know if Gwen won the popularity contest?</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Rottman</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/01/07/mainstream-spidey-coverage/#comment-30412</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Rottman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 17:44:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/01/07/mainstream-spidey-coverage/#comment-30412</guid>
		<description>Getting in the mainstream press is what Quesada seemingly is most interested in.  It ought to be making enjoyable, interesting comics.  It shouldn&#039;t be about counting how many times he can get his name mentioned in the &lt;i&gt;USA Today&lt;/i&gt;.

Eventually he will run out of things he can kill or destroy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Getting in the mainstream press is what Quesada seemingly is most interested in.  It ought to be making enjoyable, interesting comics.  It shouldn&#8217;t be about counting how many times he can get his name mentioned in the <i>USA Today</i>.</p>
<p>Eventually he will run out of things he can kill or destroy.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Dean</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/01/07/mainstream-spidey-coverage/#comment-30411</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Dean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 16:58:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/01/07/mainstream-spidey-coverage/#comment-30411</guid>
		<description>rich Says:

&quot;Yeah but … remember Todd’s SPIDER-MAN #1 selling 2 million copies? I don’t think there aren’t two-million comic collectors in the USA.&quot;

From what I can tell from going to flea markets and oddball antique stores over the past years, I think 1.8 million copies were bought by a dozen dudes who bought them in bulk and tried to sell them the next day for ten bucks a pop. When that didn&#039;t work, they showed up by the truckloads at flea markets; some shoved in long boxes, so filling entire long boxes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>rich Says:</p>
<p>&#8220;Yeah but … remember Todd’s SPIDER-MAN #1 selling 2 million copies? I don’t think there aren’t two-million comic collectors in the USA.&#8221;</p>
<p>From what I can tell from going to flea markets and oddball antique stores over the past years, I think 1.8 million copies were bought by a dozen dudes who bought them in bulk and tried to sell them the next day for ten bucks a pop. When that didn&#8217;t work, they showed up by the truckloads at flea markets; some shoved in long boxes, so filling entire long boxes.</p>
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		<title>By: rich</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/01/07/mainstream-spidey-coverage/#comment-30410</link>
		<dc:creator>rich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 16:07:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/01/07/mainstream-spidey-coverage/#comment-30410</guid>
		<description>&quot;He had already witnessed one of the most successful, best selling comics of all time featuring a married Peter and Mary Jane, certainly outsold anything featuring single Peter living with Aunt May… so that blows his theory cold out of the water.&quot;

Yeah but ... remember Todd&#039;s SPIDER-MAN #1 selling 2 million copies?  I don&#039;t think there aren&#039;t two-million comic collectors in the USA.  Let&#039;s not hold Joe Q up to ridicule just because speculation mania was rampant in the 1990s.  Instead, let&#039;s hold Joe Q up to ridicule for so many other reasons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;He had already witnessed one of the most successful, best selling comics of all time featuring a married Peter and Mary Jane, certainly outsold anything featuring single Peter living with Aunt May… so that blows his theory cold out of the water.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yeah but &#8230; remember Todd&#8217;s SPIDER-MAN #1 selling 2 million copies?  I don&#8217;t think there aren&#8217;t two-million comic collectors in the USA.  Let&#8217;s not hold Joe Q up to ridicule just because speculation mania was rampant in the 1990s.  Instead, let&#8217;s hold Joe Q up to ridicule for so many other reasons.</p>
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		<title>By: rich</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/01/07/mainstream-spidey-coverage/#comment-30409</link>
		<dc:creator>rich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 16:00:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2008/01/07/mainstream-spidey-coverage/#comment-30409</guid>
		<description>Queenie Chan: &quot;As a female non-reader of superhero comics, I always felt it would be great if such a devoted and nice guy existed in real life ... &quot;

Ah, but you&#039;d probably find that boring after a while.

&quot;But now, it seems that Peter’s turned into all those 20-something losers I try to avoid in real life. This is too much reality for me. I don’t like Peter Parker anymore…&quot;

Awwww.  So what are your standards?

I think you summed up the problem in the first sentence: You&#039;re a NON-reader of super-hero comics.  Joe Q thinks this will change that, but it won&#039;t.  And steady readers are boarding lifeboats.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Queenie Chan: &#8220;As a female non-reader of superhero comics, I always felt it would be great if such a devoted and nice guy existed in real life &#8230; &#8221;</p>
<p>Ah, but you&#8217;d probably find that boring after a while.</p>
<p>&#8220;But now, it seems that Peter’s turned into all those 20-something losers I try to avoid in real life. This is too much reality for me. I don’t like Peter Parker anymore…&#8221;</p>
<p>Awwww.  So what are your standards?</p>
<p>I think you summed up the problem in the first sentence: You&#8217;re a NON-reader of super-hero comics.  Joe Q thinks this will change that, but it won&#8217;t.  And steady readers are boarding lifeboats.</p>
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