I thank the all-star comment thread for sharing their thoughts and salute the great cartoonists who have done strips for the New York Times, and now we will close this thread and look forward to a glorious 2008.

I’d very respectfully disagree with you about Winsor McKay. Have you seen his “Rarebit Fiends” strips? Some of those are hysterically funny. The “So Many Splendid Sundays” Nemo book has some real guffaws in it.

Mind you it’s humor from nearly a century ago, but it holds up pretty well.

The connection between the two is pretty clear, as Larson continues the tradition of playing with the very nature of the reality of the strip, breaking the fourth wall (or is that the third wall for 2d rendering?) and generally madcap work.

That’s not only absurd, it’s not even a sentence.

You’re tap-dancing in this thread is really pretty funny. You wrote a petty piece about artists whose work is, frankly, of a far greater quality than yours. Are you entitled to that opinion, of course. Am I entitled to think you come across as shrill, unpleasant and crass, of course. Crying censor, quoting the dictionary at people, claiming other just aren’t ‘getting’ what you said, please. You sound no different than the typical internet troll spoiling for a fight.

As for elitism, that doesn’t even make sense. Do you even understand how much you sound like the very right-wing demagogues you rail against with reactions like that. People who criticize you get a a label slapped on them. You’re all liberals…I mean elitists.

I think it’s very entertaining to see so many smart and talented people (like the amazing COOP) come out swinging at your nonsense. You have every right to your opinion Ted. And we have every right to think you an ass for it.

Kim Thompson Says:
12/28/07 at 7:32 pm

In the spirit of holiday generosity I will not submit the suggestion that Shannon Wheeler belongs in this company to the detailed mocking it so richly deserves.

What other newspaper publishes art cartoonists regularly?! Unorthodx art cartoonists you see no where else? None! What papers published Sutton and Tomorrow? A bunch!

Its a special thing. Its not the Reuben Awards and its not who gets into Comics Heaven. Its a special thing for alt toons.

Indeed, as someone mentioned, Tom Tomorrow and the like are not graphic novelists. I have never even seen him tell a story. Those are political cartoonists for the most part, or comic strippers (?). The New York Times is getting storytellers, and likewise its getting storytellers who would appeal to thier readers, mainly ones of extremely quiet, way of life, New Yorkey, literary guys. The comic equivalent of a John Cheever or a J.D. Salinger.

As for superheroes and manga, the first one gets more play than it ever needed or deserved. If superheroes dropped off of the Earth right now, there would be still more material than one would know what to do with. Manga tends to be Japanese, and the closest thing we have to a truly great acclaimed Manga artist would be Scott O’Malley, and calling him that is short changing him.

I think the stories feel similar because there’s a tendency to lump all alt-cartoonists into one category, which is of course silly. It would be like lumping Frank Miller with Jeff Smith just because they both made superheroes. Mister Wonderful is poignant, but it never reaches the sadness of Chris Ware’s ‘Building Stories’.

Ted does have a point –Ted actually almost always does have a point until he gets carried away– that in terms of general tone the five stories so far map similar terrain in terms of emotion, pacing, etc. (An unkind person might use the word “mopey.”) I’m not sure if this is deliberate, or just luck of the draw as the editors picked their favorite cartoonists and had their work skew that way (Jaime’s story was unusually subdued, for instance)… although Jason’s “Low Moon,” which will follow Clowes in the Spring, is entirely different, and I’m sure Marjane Satrapi (who turned them down) would have been quite different as well.

In the spirit of holiday generosity I will not submit the suggestion that Shannon Wheeler belongs in this company to the detailed mocking it so richly deserves.

Incidentally, there is not a goddamn thing stopping the cartoonists Ted cites from working up a proposal and sending it to the NEW YORK TIMES SUNDAY MAGAZINE editor if they are so inclined, but my guess is that Ward Sutton and Tom Tomorrow’s reaction to this whole controversy is “huh?”

“And the way he equates all of the artists in the Times thus far: Ware, Clowes, Seth, Kelso, Hernandez, Clowes — has been silly. Those are six pretty different cartoonists”

Those are five, not six, you fucking pot head. Ted Rall wins!

Eric Reynolds Says:
12/27/07 at 6:18 pm

” he’s wrong and can go fuck himself.”