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	<title>Comments on: A little bit more on DC/RH</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/09/06/a-little-bit-more-on-dcrh/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/09/06/a-little-bit-more-on-dcrh/</link>
	<description>The News Blog of Comics Culture</description>
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		<title>By: walter</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/09/06/a-little-bit-more-on-dcrh/#comment-22476</link>
		<dc:creator>walter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2007 12:43:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/09/06/a-little-bit-more-on-dcrh/#comment-22476</guid>
		<description>Eric, you are the one who personalized this.  This isn&#039;t about you and John---I&#039;m sure you are both wonderful guys.  And the companies you work for are both fabulous as well.  But the DC/RH realationship is on a differnet level than the others Heidi cited.  If you are so acutely aware of everything, then you know this...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric, you are the one who personalized this.  This isn&#8217;t about you and John&#8212;I&#8217;m sure you are both wonderful guys.  And the companies you work for are both fabulous as well.  But the DC/RH realationship is on a differnet level than the others Heidi cited.  If you are so acutely aware of everything, then you know this&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Reynolds</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/09/06/a-little-bit-more-on-dcrh/#comment-22475</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Reynolds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 22:40:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/09/06/a-little-bit-more-on-dcrh/#comment-22475</guid>
		<description>Walter, I think John and I are both more acutely aware of the relative differences in positional power of the companies involved than you could possibly imagine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Walter, I think John and I are both more acutely aware of the relative differences in positional power of the companies involved than you could possibly imagine.</p>
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		<title>By: walter</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/09/06/a-little-bit-more-on-dcrh/#comment-22474</link>
		<dc:creator>walter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 21:51:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/09/06/a-little-bit-more-on-dcrh/#comment-22474</guid>
		<description>&quot;I’d like to hear the argument behind that statement. I would argue that there is no one who understands the Fantagraphics/Norton relationship better than Eric Reynolds and myself, and I’m curious what you mean above.&quot;

---meaning, that RH&#039;s position in the book market is not equivalent to Norton&#039;s and Fantagraphics&#039; position in the comic market is not equivalent to DC&#039;s.  It&#039;s not a comment about what you know or what Eric knows---it&#039;s a comment about the positional power of the companies involved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I’d like to hear the argument behind that statement. I would argue that there is no one who understands the Fantagraphics/Norton relationship better than Eric Reynolds and myself, and I’m curious what you mean above.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8212;meaning, that RH&#8217;s position in the book market is not equivalent to Norton&#8217;s and Fantagraphics&#8217; position in the comic market is not equivalent to DC&#8217;s.  It&#8217;s not a comment about what you know or what Eric knows&#8212;it&#8217;s a comment about the positional power of the companies involved.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Reynolds</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/09/06/a-little-bit-more-on-dcrh/#comment-22473</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Reynolds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 06:46:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/09/06/a-little-bit-more-on-dcrh/#comment-22473</guid>
		<description>Tommy, your first paragraph is well-taken, I actually think you&#039;re right about that 1995 deal not really being about the book trade and being very much a product of the distributor wars, and admit that I&#039;m simply looking at the original deal for curiosity&#039;s sake and attempting to draw connections that may well not be there.

As for sales reps, I&#039;m certain Rory&#039;s right about Random House&#039;s sales reps being a huge advantage in terms of sheer might, but that&#039;s not necessarily a reason to overlook other huge advantages and cost-savings, especially given how increasingly consolidated market share has become amongst a few major players (B&amp;N, Amazon, Borders, B&amp;T, &amp; Ingram are probaby 85% of the market for most new graphic novels) who don&#039;t need to be serviced by a giant team of field agents or whatever.

Or maybe it is! I guess I&#039;m saying I could easily make arguments for both, and so I would love to know their final thought process in deciding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tommy, your first paragraph is well-taken, I actually think you&#8217;re right about that 1995 deal not really being about the book trade and being very much a product of the distributor wars, and admit that I&#8217;m simply looking at the original deal for curiosity&#8217;s sake and attempting to draw connections that may well not be there.</p>
<p>As for sales reps, I&#8217;m certain Rory&#8217;s right about Random House&#8217;s sales reps being a huge advantage in terms of sheer might, but that&#8217;s not necessarily a reason to overlook other huge advantages and cost-savings, especially given how increasingly consolidated market share has become amongst a few major players (B&amp;N, Amazon, Borders, B&amp;T, &amp; Ingram are probaby 85% of the market for most new graphic novels) who don&#8217;t need to be serviced by a giant team of field agents or whatever.</p>
<p>Or maybe it is! I guess I&#8217;m saying I could easily make arguments for both, and so I would love to know their final thought process in deciding.</p>
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		<title>By: Tommy Raiko</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/09/06/a-little-bit-more-on-dcrh/#comment-22472</link>
		<dc:creator>Tommy Raiko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 02:54:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/09/06/a-little-bit-more-on-dcrh/#comment-22472</guid>
		<description>Again, I ain&#039;t an expert, but the 1995 Diamond/DC arrangement seems to be very much a response to the &quot;distributor wars&quot; climate happening at that time in the comics direct sales market. I don&#039;t think it had much to do with the book trade at all, and I don&#039;t think its contingencies have much relevance to the decisions DC may make about the book trade today, over a decade later.

Getting back to Rory&#039;s comment about the number of sales reps. A major publisher probably has a sales force that numbers in the dozens--several to cover national retail chains, others for trade wholesalers, others for independent booksellers, others for so-called &quot;special markets&quot;, more for big box merchandisers, and so on.  Does DBD have that many folks in place as an active sales force? Is DC&#039;s in-house staff comparable in scope? Could DC build its own comparable staff? I mean, yes, I could easily believe that RH&#039;s sales force is indeed significantly larger than DC&#039;s current own, or DBDs, or many (but not necessarily all) other book trade distributors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Again, I ain&#8217;t an expert, but the 1995 Diamond/DC arrangement seems to be very much a response to the &#8220;distributor wars&#8221; climate happening at that time in the comics direct sales market. I don&#8217;t think it had much to do with the book trade at all, and I don&#8217;t think its contingencies have much relevance to the decisions DC may make about the book trade today, over a decade later.</p>
<p>Getting back to Rory&#8217;s comment about the number of sales reps. A major publisher probably has a sales force that numbers in the dozens&#8211;several to cover national retail chains, others for trade wholesalers, others for independent booksellers, others for so-called &#8220;special markets&#8221;, more for big box merchandisers, and so on.  Does DBD have that many folks in place as an active sales force? Is DC&#8217;s in-house staff comparable in scope? Could DC build its own comparable staff? I mean, yes, I could easily believe that RH&#8217;s sales force is indeed significantly larger than DC&#8217;s current own, or DBDs, or many (but not necessarily all) other book trade distributors.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Reynolds</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/09/06/a-little-bit-more-on-dcrh/#comment-22471</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Reynolds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 01:09:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/09/06/a-little-bit-more-on-dcrh/#comment-22471</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sure Rory&#039;s onto something, but is it really completely that simple?

Does DC have it&#039;s own &quot;sales force&quot; for the DM? I seem to recall that being one of the advantages to their exclusive deal in &#039;95, that they would have access to all sales info and could employ their own sales team.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sure Rory&#8217;s onto something, but is it really completely that simple?</p>
<p>Does DC have it&#8217;s own &#8220;sales force&#8221; for the DM? I seem to recall that being one of the advantages to their exclusive deal in &#8216;95, that they would have access to all sales info and could employ their own sales team.</p>
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		<title>By: Tommy Raiko</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/09/06/a-little-bit-more-on-dcrh/#comment-22470</link>
		<dc:creator>Tommy Raiko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 00:52:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/09/06/a-little-bit-more-on-dcrh/#comment-22470</guid>
		<description>Ah, leave it Mr. Root to put it more succintly while I&#039;m typing away...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, leave it Mr. Root to put it more succintly while I&#8217;m typing away&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Tommy Raiko</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/09/06/a-little-bit-more-on-dcrh/#comment-22469</link>
		<dc:creator>Tommy Raiko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 00:51:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/09/06/a-little-bit-more-on-dcrh/#comment-22469</guid>
		<description>Eric:

Yeah, none of us not in the deal will ever know everything that went into the decision, but for what it&#039;s worth, a little web searching turned up this:

http://www.randomhouse.biz/publisherservices/coreservices

which is an overview of the capabilities Random House has to offer to distributed lines. I certainly ain&#039;t an expert in such things, but warehouse capacity and fulfillment activity they describe there seems pretty impressive to me.  Plus, that site describes RH&#039;s sales force as &quot;the largest, and most esteemed sales force in the industry.&quot;  Even allowing for a bit of hyperbole to that statement, if the big difference between what DC&#039;s getting out of RH now vs. what DC got out of Hachette has to do with the sales force, maybe RH&#039;s sales force was somehow more impressive than other distributors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric:</p>
<p>Yeah, none of us not in the deal will ever know everything that went into the decision, but for what it&#8217;s worth, a little web searching turned up this:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.randomhouse.biz/publisherservices/coreservices" rel="nofollow">http://www.randomhouse.biz/publisherservices/coreservices</a></p>
<p>which is an overview of the capabilities Random House has to offer to distributed lines. I certainly ain&#8217;t an expert in such things, but warehouse capacity and fulfillment activity they describe there seems pretty impressive to me.  Plus, that site describes RH&#8217;s sales force as &#8220;the largest, and most esteemed sales force in the industry.&#8221;  Even allowing for a bit of hyperbole to that statement, if the big difference between what DC&#8217;s getting out of RH now vs. what DC got out of Hachette has to do with the sales force, maybe RH&#8217;s sales force was somehow more impressive than other distributors.</p>
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		<title>By: Rory D. Root</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/09/06/a-little-bit-more-on-dcrh/#comment-22468</link>
		<dc:creator>Rory D. Root</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 00:40:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/09/06/a-little-bit-more-on-dcrh/#comment-22468</guid>
		<description>Sales reps folks, it is all about the sales reps.

Diamond&#039;s are great; they just don&#039;t have enough of them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sales reps folks, it is all about the sales reps.</p>
<p>Diamond&#8217;s are great; they just don&#8217;t have enough of them.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Reynolds</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/09/06/a-little-bit-more-on-dcrh/#comment-22467</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Reynolds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Sep 2007 00:00:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/09/06/a-little-bit-more-on-dcrh/#comment-22467</guid>
		<description>Tommy, I don&#039;t know, either. Like I said, just speculating. But I do know there would have been some very substantial cost-saving incentives in going with DBD, so I&#039;m curious to know why they did not, even though I doubt any of us ever will know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tommy, I don&#8217;t know, either. Like I said, just speculating. But I do know there would have been some very substantial cost-saving incentives in going with DBD, so I&#8217;m curious to know why they did not, even though I doubt any of us ever will know.</p>
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		<title>By: Tommy Raiko</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/09/06/a-little-bit-more-on-dcrh/#comment-22466</link>
		<dc:creator>Tommy Raiko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2007 23:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/09/06/a-little-bit-more-on-dcrh/#comment-22466</guid>
		<description>&gt; On another note, I wonder how hard Diamond Book Distributors lobbied
&gt; for DC’s business? They must have tried, given Diamond/DC’s exclusive
&gt; relationship on the DCD side. I wonder if DC was worried about putting
&gt; all its eggs in one basket or if Random House just simply looked that
&gt; much more attractive.

Oh, I&#039;m sure that DBD pursued the DC&#039;s book trade business. I wouldn&#039;t be surprised if book trade distributors other than RH and DBD pursued DC&#039;s book trade business.  Heck, I wouldn&#039;t be surprised if every other book trade distributor in the biz was trying to get the line...

But there are so many factors that could influence decision-makers in these sorts of deals, that I don&#039;t know that a fear-of-consolidating-eggs in the Diamond basket would be a central concern.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; On another note, I wonder how hard Diamond Book Distributors lobbied<br />
&gt; for DC’s business? They must have tried, given Diamond/DC’s exclusive<br />
&gt; relationship on the DCD side. I wonder if DC was worried about putting<br />
&gt; all its eggs in one basket or if Random House just simply looked that<br />
&gt; much more attractive.</p>
<p>Oh, I&#8217;m sure that DBD pursued the DC&#8217;s book trade business. I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised if book trade distributors other than RH and DBD pursued DC&#8217;s book trade business.  Heck, I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised if every other book trade distributor in the biz was trying to get the line&#8230;</p>
<p>But there are so many factors that could influence decision-makers in these sorts of deals, that I don&#8217;t know that a fear-of-consolidating-eggs in the Diamond basket would be a central concern.</p>
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		<title>By: John DiBello</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/09/06/a-little-bit-more-on-dcrh/#comment-22465</link>
		<dc:creator>John DiBello</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2007 23:45:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/09/06/a-little-bit-more-on-dcrh/#comment-22465</guid>
		<description>&lt;I&gt;to argue that fantagraphics/norton is a relationship akin to dc/random house shows (in this case) a willful lack of understanding of both the comics business and the book business.&lt;/I&gt;

I&#039;d like to hear the argument behind that statement. I would argue that there is no one who understands the Fantagraphics/Norton relationship better than Eric Reynolds and myself, and I&#039;m curious what you mean above.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>to argue that fantagraphics/norton is a relationship akin to dc/random house shows (in this case) a willful lack of understanding of both the comics business and the book business.</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to hear the argument behind that statement. I would argue that there is no one who understands the Fantagraphics/Norton relationship better than Eric Reynolds and myself, and I&#8217;m curious what you mean above.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Reynolds</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/09/06/a-little-bit-more-on-dcrh/#comment-22464</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Reynolds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2007 23:29:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/09/06/a-little-bit-more-on-dcrh/#comment-22464</guid>
		<description>&quot;To argue that fantagraphics/norton is a relationship akin to dc/random house shows (in this case) a willful lack of understanding of both the comics business and the book business.&quot;

Sez you, neener-neener.

I understand the differences insofar as both DC and Random House are extremely large corporations existing within giant conglomorates, whereas Fanta and Norton are independent companies. But the basic idea of a GN publisher teaming up with a regular ol&#039; book publisher-as-distributor is not new.

Your comment about Hatchette vs. RH has no bearing on my comment at all, although for what it&#039;s worth I think you&#039;re correct.

And actually, I was not one of the people who drew this to Heidi&#039;s attention. I read it here first. So there!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;To argue that fantagraphics/norton is a relationship akin to dc/random house shows (in this case) a willful lack of understanding of both the comics business and the book business.&#8221;</p>
<p>Sez you, neener-neener.</p>
<p>I understand the differences insofar as both DC and Random House are extremely large corporations existing within giant conglomorates, whereas Fanta and Norton are independent companies. But the basic idea of a GN publisher teaming up with a regular ol&#8217; book publisher-as-distributor is not new.</p>
<p>Your comment about Hatchette vs. RH has no bearing on my comment at all, although for what it&#8217;s worth I think you&#8217;re correct.</p>
<p>And actually, I was not one of the people who drew this to Heidi&#8217;s attention. I read it here first. So there!</p>
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		<title>By: walter</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/09/06/a-little-bit-more-on-dcrh/#comment-22463</link>
		<dc:creator>walter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2007 23:22:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/09/06/a-little-bit-more-on-dcrh/#comment-22463</guid>
		<description>to argue that fantagraphics/norton is a relationship akin to dc/random house shows (in this case) a willful lack of understanding of both the comics business and the book business.  also, if i read correctly, the difference between dc&#039;s relationship with hachette vs. their relationship with random house is that hachette (or time warner) never actually SOLD DC&#039;s books into bookstores.  in that light, having the RH sales force out selling DC&#039;s books is a sea change...

next time, heidi, when you want to write &quot;A couple of people drew our attention...&quot;, just say that eric emailed you...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>to argue that fantagraphics/norton is a relationship akin to dc/random house shows (in this case) a willful lack of understanding of both the comics business and the book business.  also, if i read correctly, the difference between dc&#8217;s relationship with hachette vs. their relationship with random house is that hachette (or time warner) never actually SOLD DC&#8217;s books into bookstores.  in that light, having the RH sales force out selling DC&#8217;s books is a sea change&#8230;</p>
<p>next time, heidi, when you want to write &#8220;A couple of people drew our attention&#8230;&#8221;, just say that eric emailed you&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Reynolds</title>
		<link>http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/09/06/a-little-bit-more-on-dcrh/#comment-22462</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Reynolds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2007 23:01:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/09/06/a-little-bit-more-on-dcrh/#comment-22462</guid>
		<description>As far back as the 80s, Berkeley also distributed Fantagraphics and NBM for a brief while. And we&#039;ve been with W.W. Norton since 2001 (I think we were the first to sign such a deal in this most recent era of distribution deals, FWIW). And in addition to all of the other deals in place Heidi mentioned, there&#039;s also D&amp;Q&#039;s deal with Farrar, Straus &amp; Giroux. Just sayin&#039; - Mr. Levitz has a little myopia sometimes, with all due respect.

On another note, I wonder how hard Diamond Book Distributors lobbied for DC&#039;s business? They must have tried, given Diamond/DC&#039;s exclusive relationship on the DCD side. I wonder if DC was worried about putting all its eggs in one basket or if Random House just simply looked that much more attractive.  I guess we shouldn&#039;t expect to see DC purchasing Diamond anytime soon. I&#039;m referring, of course, to DC&#039;s exclusive contract inked with DCD in 1995, which gives Diamond &quot;the right but not the obligation to buy Diamond outright between the 10th and 16th year&quot; of the deal (i.e. 2005 and 2011), as reported in TCJ #177 (May 1995).

This new deal is interesting because with Diamond already warehousing so much of DC&#039;s books due to their 1995 deal, there would have probably been a significant cost savings in consolodating their book trade business into DBD. The fact that they chose not to is curious, although I can only speculate as to the reasons.

In the 1995 deal, DC even seemed to be hedging its bets against WPS and looking towards a future book trade relationship with Diamond. Quoting the infamous &quot;Levitz memo&quot;:

&quot;Diamond becomes available as a low cost supplier of distribution services which have potential economic benefits for our other distribution venues, including as leverage against the $2 million distribution fees we currently pay WPS.&quot;

It seems to me that the potential economic benefits are as much or greater now than they were in 1995, given that DBD didn&#039;t exist in 1995.

I like what Matt Brady does, but I sure would have loved to hear what Levitz has to say about any of this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far back as the 80s, Berkeley also distributed Fantagraphics and NBM for a brief while. And we&#8217;ve been with W.W. Norton since 2001 (I think we were the first to sign such a deal in this most recent era of distribution deals, FWIW). And in addition to all of the other deals in place Heidi mentioned, there&#8217;s also D&amp;Q&#8217;s deal with Farrar, Straus &amp; Giroux. Just sayin&#8217; &#8211; Mr. Levitz has a little myopia sometimes, with all due respect.</p>
<p>On another note, I wonder how hard Diamond Book Distributors lobbied for DC&#8217;s business? They must have tried, given Diamond/DC&#8217;s exclusive relationship on the DCD side. I wonder if DC was worried about putting all its eggs in one basket or if Random House just simply looked that much more attractive.  I guess we shouldn&#8217;t expect to see DC purchasing Diamond anytime soon. I&#8217;m referring, of course, to DC&#8217;s exclusive contract inked with DCD in 1995, which gives Diamond &#8220;the right but not the obligation to buy Diamond outright between the 10th and 16th year&#8221; of the deal (i.e. 2005 and 2011), as reported in TCJ #177 (May 1995).</p>
<p>This new deal is interesting because with Diamond already warehousing so much of DC&#8217;s books due to their 1995 deal, there would have probably been a significant cost savings in consolodating their book trade business into DBD. The fact that they chose not to is curious, although I can only speculate as to the reasons.</p>
<p>In the 1995 deal, DC even seemed to be hedging its bets against WPS and looking towards a future book trade relationship with Diamond. Quoting the infamous &#8220;Levitz memo&#8221;:</p>
<p>&#8220;Diamond becomes available as a low cost supplier of distribution services which have potential economic benefits for our other distribution venues, including as leverage against the $2 million distribution fees we currently pay WPS.&#8221;</p>
<p>It seems to me that the potential economic benefits are as much or greater now than they were in 1995, given that DBD didn&#8217;t exist in 1995.</p>
<p>I like what Matt Brady does, but I sure would have loved to hear what Levitz has to say about any of this.</p>
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