Comments on: Is the pamphlet the future of comics? http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/04/16/is-the-pamphlet-the-future-of-comics/ The News Blog of Comics Culture Sat, 11 Feb 2012 21:13:57 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v= hourly 1 By: Emperor http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/04/16/is-the-pamphlet-the-future-of-comics/#comment-62581 Emperor Wed, 22 Dec 2010 01:13:39 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/04/16/is-the-pamphlet-the-future-of-comics/#comment-62581 "I would love to see a low-price monthly anthology, but the industry doesn’t seem to be going that way. ... With the monthly print anthology — Yen and Viz aside — still failing to find any traction here" Which is weird and America is a bit of an anomaly in this regard: manga, Franco-Belgian comics magazines and British comics are most often serialised as an anthology before being collected into tankobon, albums or trade paperbacks. Almost all the world's longest running comics that still exist today started out as anthologies, including Detective Comics and Action Comics, but also Spirou, The Dandy and The Beano. This would suggest it is a flexible and robust format, plus it is one that supports risk-taking and trying new ideas. The question is then why did America fall out of love with the anthology (with the exception of Heavy Metal)? It may be that the influence of manga has started to reverse this trend, underlying the idea that this is an option and there are some recent anthologies that have proved popular, like Flight, Popgun and Wednesday Comics. List of comics anthologies here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comics_anthology What could prove interesting is an anthology of 11-20 page stories and serialisation of the individual stories in electronic format, with an eventual trade paperback release. Hell with POD you could build your own anthology/trade, with an in-store POD service (like Lightning Source's Espresso Book Machines) you could order it before leaving for work and then pick up the anthology on your way to the office. I suspect the flexibility of print options might lead to more experimentation on this front. “I would love to see a low-price monthly anthology, but the industry doesn’t seem to be going that way.

…

With the monthly print anthology — Yen and Viz aside — still failing to find any traction here”

Which is weird and America is a bit of an anomaly in this regard: manga, Franco-Belgian comics magazines and British comics are most often serialised as an anthology before being collected into tankobon, albums or trade paperbacks.

Almost all the world’s longest running comics that still exist today started out as anthologies, including Detective Comics and Action Comics, but also Spirou, The Dandy and The Beano. This would suggest it is a flexible and robust format, plus it is one that supports risk-taking and trying new ideas.

The question is then why did America fall out of love with the anthology (with the exception of Heavy Metal)? It may be that the influence of manga has started to reverse this trend, underlying the idea that this is an option and there are some recent anthologies that have proved popular, like Flight, Popgun and Wednesday Comics.

List of comics anthologies here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comics_anthology

What could prove interesting is an anthology of 11-20 page stories and serialisation of the individual stories in electronic format, with an eventual trade paperback release. Hell with POD you could build your own anthology/trade, with an in-store POD service (like Lightning Source’s Espresso Book Machines) you could order it before leaving for work and then pick up the anthology on your way to the office. I suspect the flexibility of print options might lead to more experimentation on this front.

]]> By: STWALLSKULL » Interesting Links: April 18, 2007 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/04/16/is-the-pamphlet-the-future-of-comics/#comment-15551 STWALLSKULL » Interesting Links: April 18, 2007 Thu, 19 Apr 2007 02:26:37 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/04/16/is-the-pamphlet-the-future-of-comics/#comment-15551 [...] Is the pamphlet the future of comics? [...] [...] Is the pamphlet the future of comics? [...]

]]> By: Nick W. http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/04/16/is-the-pamphlet-the-future-of-comics/#comment-15550 Nick W. Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:14:46 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/04/16/is-the-pamphlet-the-future-of-comics/#comment-15550 Let's see, size of audience, price point, distribution penetration, profit margin, the cultures willingness to read novels vs. their willingness to read graphic novels. Let’s see, size of audience, price point, distribution penetration, profit margin, the cultures willingness to read novels vs. their willingness to read graphic novels.

]]> By: luca http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/04/16/is-the-pamphlet-the-future-of-comics/#comment-15549 luca Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:33:54 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/04/16/is-the-pamphlet-the-future-of-comics/#comment-15549 But what about novel writers? How can they make a living? What sets graphics novels economics apart from the rest of publishing industry? But what about novel writers? How can they make a living? What sets graphics novels economics apart from the rest of publishing industry?

]]> By: Lea http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/04/16/is-the-pamphlet-the-future-of-comics/#comment-15548 Lea Wed, 18 Apr 2007 00:44:05 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/04/16/is-the-pamphlet-the-future-of-comics/#comment-15548 A model that works (and I know because I did it with Rumble Girls: SWT in 2003, before Girl Genius left print for web) is to serialize on the web to get that feedback, have readers spot errors, and keep one's name in front of people while waiting for the GN to hit stores. There's little money to be made in web serializtion (I think Scott Kurtz and Gabe and Tycho filch everyone else's--just kidding!), but there's little to be made in publishing pamphlets, either, unless you're drawing for a company that pays a page rate (advances are painfully small--I bet Tania delRio makes more per 200 pages than a TokyoPop artist does, I'm guessing a difference of $5,000. for TP v. at least $10,000. for Archie (and that's presuming Archie only pays $50. a page.)) For self-publishers, pamphlets are just not worth the agony of production, printing and shipping, and fighting in a market that generally does not care about anything but Marvel/DC/Image/DH. The great thing about a GN collecting web-serialized work is you only have to go through the production pain once, and you have a product you can sell in traditional bookstores and to libraries. Try that with a floppy. A model that works (and I know because I did it with Rumble Girls: SWT in 2003, before Girl Genius left print for web) is to serialize on the web to get that feedback, have readers spot errors, and keep one’s name in front of people while waiting for the GN to hit stores.

There’s little money to be made in web serializtion (I think Scott Kurtz and Gabe and Tycho filch everyone else’s–just kidding!), but there’s little to be made in publishing pamphlets, either, unless you’re drawing for a company that pays a page rate (advances are painfully small–I bet Tania delRio makes more per 200 pages than a TokyoPop artist does, I’m guessing a difference of $5,000. for TP v. at least $10,000. for Archie (and that’s presuming Archie only pays $50. a page.))
For self-publishers, pamphlets are just not worth the agony of production, printing and shipping, and fighting in a market that generally does not care about anything but Marvel/DC/Image/DH.

The great thing about a GN collecting web-serialized work is you only have to go through the production pain once, and you have a product you can sell in traditional bookstores and to libraries. Try that with a floppy.

]]> By: The Beat http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/04/16/is-the-pamphlet-the-future-of-comics/#comment-15547 The Beat Tue, 17 Apr 2007 13:14:09 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/04/16/is-the-pamphlet-the-future-of-comics/#comment-15547 I dunno if Minx pays advances or not, but both Marvel and DC have a "pay as you go" system whereby you can invoice every 8 or 16 pages or so, so essentially doing a graphic novel for DC is like doing a monthly book. Most other comics publishers don't pay page rates as high as the Big Two -- maybe Dark Horse sometimes. Regular book publishers haven't adapted this "scheduled payment" idea. It's all or nothing with them. Advance, then royalty. As far as I know, the graphic novel lines at the publishers are the same way. Some, that are work for hire, may even pay when you FINISH a job. I dunno if Minx pays advances or not, but both Marvel and DC have a “pay as you go” system whereby you can invoice every 8 or 16 pages or so, so essentially doing a graphic novel for DC is like doing a monthly book. Most other comics publishers don’t pay page rates as high as the Big Two — maybe Dark Horse sometimes.

Regular book publishers haven’t adapted this “scheduled payment” idea. It’s all or nothing with them. Advance, then royalty. As far as I know, the graphic novel lines at the publishers are the same way. Some, that are work for hire, may even pay when you FINISH a job.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/04/16/is-the-pamphlet-the-future-of-comics/#comment-15546 Anonymous Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:14:46 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/04/16/is-the-pamphlet-the-future-of-comics/#comment-15546 Above someone mentions that Minx pays advances...do they also pay (and the same goes for First Second & Graphix, etc) page rates to help support the artist as they create the work? Are they advances large enough to sustain an artist while they're working? Anyone know? Above someone mentions that Minx pays advances…do they also pay (and the same goes for First Second & Graphix, etc) page rates to help support the artist as they create the work? Are they advances large enough to sustain an artist while they’re working?

Anyone know?

]]> By: Journalista - the news weblog of The Comics Journal » Blog Archive » April. 17, 2007: 32 pages to a pauper’s grave http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/04/16/is-the-pamphlet-the-future-of-comics/#comment-15545 Journalista - the news weblog of The Comics Journal » Blog Archive » April. 17, 2007: 32 pages to a pauper’s grave Tue, 17 Apr 2007 09:18:03 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/04/16/is-the-pamphlet-the-future-of-comics/#comment-15545 [...] Tom Spurgeon and Heidi MacDonald takes turns discussing the utility of various formats and their financial viability… and the… ummm… yawwwwn. Huh? Oh, sorry about that. I suppose I should be awake for this. [...] [...] Tom Spurgeon and Heidi MacDonald takes turns discussing the utility of various formats and their financial viability… and the… ummm… yawwwwn. Huh? Oh, sorry about that. I suppose I should be awake for this. [...]

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/04/16/is-the-pamphlet-the-future-of-comics/#comment-15544 Anonymous Tue, 17 Apr 2007 08:10:46 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/04/16/is-the-pamphlet-the-future-of-comics/#comment-15544 "So, how do Scholastic Graphix, First Second, and Minx make the OGN model work?" Can't speak for the other two, but I believe Minx pays advances. “So, how do Scholastic Graphix, First Second, and Minx make the OGN model work?”

Can’t speak for the other two, but I believe Minx pays advances.

]]> By: Nick W. http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/04/16/is-the-pamphlet-the-future-of-comics/#comment-15543 Nick W. Tue, 17 Apr 2007 03:51:15 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/04/16/is-the-pamphlet-the-future-of-comics/#comment-15543 I would add to the above the following: Finding a way to make it work may mean compromising some things you want. For example, Kodansha (I believe it is) is putting on, essentially, a talent search for international talent. Someone like Corey Lewis would probably be ideal for this. But, it would mean putting up with a lot of editorial interaction and input. It might also mean taking on an assistant. It was in reply to either Becky Cloonan's original post or Corey's, but Amy Kim Ganter (Sorcers and Secretaries creator for TokyoPop) mentioned that the best thing she did recently was take on assistants to do her toning work. She simply e-mailed the jpegs to the assistants and they took care of the toning work. This is common place in the manga industry where manga-ka are expected to put out 20-40 pages of comics in a WEEK! They still manage to do it and the ones we know the best are those who still manage to put their creative vision on the page. I think there are two ways a creator can choose to define their success right now. Either you define success in terms of putting your sole, singular, vision in print with no outside interference or help. Or, you make some compromises in your "vision" in order to reach a larger audience and get compensated better for it. I would add to the above the following:
Finding a way to make it work may mean compromising some things you want. For example, Kodansha (I believe it is) is putting on, essentially, a talent search for international talent. Someone like Corey Lewis would probably be ideal for this. But, it would mean putting up with a lot of editorial interaction and input.
It might also mean taking on an assistant. It was in reply to either Becky Cloonan’s original post or Corey’s, but Amy Kim Ganter (Sorcers and Secretaries creator for TokyoPop) mentioned that the best thing she did recently was take on assistants to do her toning work. She simply e-mailed the jpegs to the assistants and they took care of the toning work. This is common place in the manga industry where manga-ka are expected to put out 20-40 pages of comics in a WEEK! They still manage to do it and the ones we know the best are those who still manage to put their creative vision on the page.
I think there are two ways a creator can choose to define their success right now. Either you define success in terms of putting your sole, singular, vision in print with no outside interference or help. Or, you make some compromises in your “vision” in order to reach a larger audience and get compensated better for it.

]]> By: Nick W. http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/04/16/is-the-pamphlet-the-future-of-comics/#comment-15542 Nick W. Tue, 17 Apr 2007 03:44:26 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/04/16/is-the-pamphlet-the-future-of-comics/#comment-15542 I think the crux of the issue is that we are in an evolution period when it comes to the business model for comics. Periodical comic books are aimed right now, almost exlusively, at adult males and driven through a very small, very specialized distribution channgel (comparitively speaking). That audience is not interested in what the larger culture (i.e. outside of comic fandom) is coming to know as "graphic novels". The periodical audience is primarily interested in their monthly fix of genre, corporate-owned, product. They are not, on the whole, interested in creator-driven works. As such, the periodical comic book format would probably be a spectacular money-loser for creators such as Corey Lewis and Becky Cloonan. OTH, the larger is culture is slowly beginning to accept "graphic novels" as a valid form of artistic expression and they are doing so through mainstream bookstore distribution channels. (People can cite all the anecdotal evidence they want and try to cast whatever voodoo they choose over the Direct Market sales #s to dispute this but we are talking about two different audiences/markets with a little bit of bleed over. Not the same audience/market at all.) As such, the "graphic novel audience" is not going to go to a comic book store or look at a comic book rack to find a monthly/quarterly/etc. serialization of a novel. They will want the one chunk purchase. The experience they are looking for is decidedly different than that of the "periodical comic book audience". As acceptance of the form grows, the potential of an anthology increases. But that is way down the line. And still, even the most well-known fiction anthology today, McSweeney's, still does not have the same audience impact as a single novel by one of it's contributors (i.e. Michael Chabon, Nick Hornby, Dave Eggers, etc.) I think the bottom line is this: Creators working right now are working for the future, not for today. You gotta do it because you love it, and figure out the ways to pay the bills because, odds are, they're not gonna get paid by your work anytime soon. Five, maybe ten years down the road, if things keep going the way they are there will probably be a good chance. But right now, there are no quick fixes. Evolution tends to happen slowly. It's just very frustrating for those who are in it right now. I think the crux of the issue is that we are in an evolution period when it comes to the business model for comics. Periodical comic books are aimed right now, almost exlusively, at adult males and driven through a very small, very specialized distribution channgel (comparitively speaking). That audience is not interested in what the larger culture (i.e. outside of comic fandom) is coming to know as “graphic novels”. The periodical audience is primarily interested in their monthly fix of genre, corporate-owned, product. They are not, on the whole, interested in creator-driven works. As such, the periodical comic book format would probably be a spectacular money-loser for creators such as Corey Lewis and Becky Cloonan.

OTH, the larger is culture is slowly beginning to accept “graphic novels” as a valid form of artistic expression and they are doing so through mainstream bookstore distribution channels. (People can cite all the anecdotal evidence they want and try to cast whatever voodoo they choose over the Direct Market sales #s to dispute this but we are talking about two different audiences/markets with a little bit of bleed over. Not the same audience/market at all.) As such, the “graphic novel audience” is not going to go to a comic book store or look at a comic book rack to find a monthly/quarterly/etc. serialization of a novel. They will want the one chunk purchase. The experience they are looking for is decidedly different than that of the “periodical comic book audience”.

As acceptance of the form grows, the potential of an anthology increases. But that is way down the line. And still, even the most well-known fiction anthology today, McSweeney’s, still does not have the same audience impact as a single novel by one of it’s contributors (i.e. Michael Chabon, Nick Hornby, Dave Eggers, etc.)

I think the bottom line is this: Creators working right now are working for the future, not for today. You gotta do it because you love it, and figure out the ways to pay the bills because, odds are, they’re not gonna get paid by your work anytime soon. Five, maybe ten years down the road, if things keep going the way they are there will probably be a good chance. But right now, there are no quick fixes. Evolution tends to happen slowly. It’s just very frustrating for those who are in it right now.

]]> By: SporksOnTheInside http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/04/16/is-the-pamphlet-the-future-of-comics/#comment-15541 SporksOnTheInside Tue, 17 Apr 2007 00:40:50 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/04/16/is-the-pamphlet-the-future-of-comics/#comment-15541 "One of the cheapest and bestest comics being published today is Fell, by Ellis and Templesmith, yet it doesn’t make the top 100 on the Diamond sales chart. Making single issues cheaply doesn’t seem to influence consumers. " That's a genre specific title driven by creators with small, dedicated followings. Make a cheap comic with a popular character and solid storytelling and I think it would be different. “One of the cheapest and bestest comics being published today is Fell, by Ellis and Templesmith, yet it doesn’t make the top 100 on the Diamond sales chart.

Making single issues cheaply doesn’t seem to influence consumers. ”

That’s a genre specific title driven by creators with small, dedicated followings.

Make a cheap comic with a popular character and solid storytelling and I think it would be different.

]]> By: Matt http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/04/16/is-the-pamphlet-the-future-of-comics/#comment-15540 Matt Mon, 16 Apr 2007 23:53:59 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/04/16/is-the-pamphlet-the-future-of-comics/#comment-15540 "Perhaps the distinctive format manga now has — those undersized graphic novels that Borders has shelves to fit specifically — is what drives a perception that they are somehow meant for teenage girls only. Since they gained the most popularity with teenage girls early on, manga books in that recognizable format are going to be associated with teenage girls for those less willing to consider content and only see the packaging. " I agree. “Perhaps the distinctive format manga now has — those undersized graphic novels that Borders has shelves to fit specifically — is what drives a perception that they are somehow meant for teenage girls only. Since they gained the most popularity with teenage girls early on, manga books in that recognizable format are going to be associated with teenage girls for those less willing to consider content and only see the packaging.

”

I agree.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/04/16/is-the-pamphlet-the-future-of-comics/#comment-15539 Anonymous Mon, 16 Apr 2007 23:32:51 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/04/16/is-the-pamphlet-the-future-of-comics/#comment-15539 Hasn't Corey Lewis been working on Sharknife for over two years now? Hasn’t Corey Lewis been working on Sharknife for over two years now?

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/04/16/is-the-pamphlet-the-future-of-comics/#comment-15538 Anonymous Mon, 16 Apr 2007 23:28:27 +0000 http://www.comicsbeat.com/2007/04/16/is-the-pamphlet-the-future-of-comics/#comment-15538 Jennifer de Guzman's post makes perfect sense. I hope Cloonan and Lewis read it. Jennifer de Guzman’s post makes perfect sense. I hope Cloonan and Lewis read it.

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